Energy Saving Solutions

[jon0844]

Given the huge numbers of hamsters required, the only problem I can see is that they'll form a union and demand to be paid handsomely in toilet roll tubes. As the railway generally use individual sheets of paper, so don't have any rolls, I can see many problems ahead.

The idea is flawless otherwise.

 

[LE Greys]

To prove that there's nothing new under the Sun, how about the large-scale version?

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/brandreths-horse-locomotive-cyclopede-from-engineers-and-news-photo/113445834

 

[DXMachina]

Hamsters are no good

What's needed is clearly chinchillas on intravenous ephedrine drips.

 

[Stewart]

Try reading for comprehension, I wasn't serious.

Solar panels do work in areas with appropriate weather patterns, which unfortunately excludes Britain. When you have the world's most remote railway and the signals are there only to indicate the state of the points and loop occupancy, it makes sense to use solar power rather than setting up a whole new electricity network for just a couple of signals.

Unfortunately the places most suited to solar tend to be quite dusty. That means solar panels require cleaning every day to remove the sand. The abrasion caused by sand erosion also reduces their life-span significantly.

Solar panels sound good on the surface but just do not work.

 

[exile]

Unfortunately the places most suited to solar tend to be quite dusty. That means solar panels require cleaning every day to remove the sand. The abrasion caused by sand erosion also reduces their life-span significantly.

Solar panels sound good on the surface but just do not work.

Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellis_Solar_Power_Plant

 

[Stewart]

Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellis_Solar_Power_Plant

Ah, the Wikipedia rebuttal

 

[tony_mac]

The wikipedia article has references that can be checked. Unlike.....

 

[Stewart]

The wikipedia article has references that can be checked. Unlike.....

I've noticed a few times that this forum could do with being exposed to reality a bit more! Never trust Wikipedia is a good rule when controversial issues are afoot. Renewable energy is a very controversial issue.

 

[jon0844]

What are you claiming is wrong about the Wikipedia entry exactly?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Stewart has a serious allergy when it comes to the environment and fact. I am somewhat reminded of the fracking thread back in August.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Clip]

Given the huge numbers of hamsters required, the only problem I can see is that they'll form a union and demand to be paid handsomely in toilet roll tubes. As the railway generally use individual sheets of paper, so don't have any rolls, I can see many problems ahead.

The idea is flawless otherwise.

The toilet tube issue wouldnt really be a problem really. What we would have to encourage is recycling of people home toilet roll tube and bring them in to work.

If not then Ill make sure the cleaners dont throw the ones from Blue roll away as one of those large ones is surely equal to 10 normal sized toilet roll tubes.

Chinchillas wouldnt work as their fur is too long and you dont want to run the risk of it getting caught anywhere in the wheel or axle. It would also lead to a quicker build up of fluff around the axle which would mean the rapid employment of a team of mice to come take it away to make their beds with - and we all know how militant mice can be.

 

[Stewart]

Stewart has a serious allergy when it comes to the environment and fact. I am somewhat reminded of the fracking thread back in August.

Richter 1 tremors mean we shouldn't utilise the natural resources beneath our feet?

 

[LexyBoy]

Hamsters are no good

What's needed is clearly chinchillas on intravenous ephedrine drips.

Trains are big. We need to think bigger than hamsters, bigger than chinchillas. Clearly, lions are the answer. (We can use the hamsters for food, so they won't be wasted.)

Alternatively, what about using HHO gas to save fuel? I'm a scientist and can confirm that this is definitely legit.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Trains are big. We need to think bigger than hamsters, bigger than chinchillas. Clearly, lions are the answer.

Maybe even bigger? I'm wondering if horses might be even more effective?
Perhaps they could be tethered to the front of the train by some sort of harness and, well, pull the train?

There would be possible delays when the horses required rest or food, but on busy lines, depots could be constructed where teams of horses are kept refreshed and they could be swapped over with incoming exhausted horses.

Would reduce fuel bills utterly. Just hay, water, and the odd turnip. Wouldn't be any slower than a Pacer.

 

[jon0844]

Lions could perform revenue duties instead.

 

[LE Greys]

Maybe even bigger? I'm wondering if horses might be even more effective?
Perhaps they could be tethered to the front of the train by some sort of harness and, well, pull the train?

There would be possible delays when the horses required rest or food, but on busy lines, depots could be constructed where teams of horses are kept refreshed and they could be swapped over with incoming exhausted horses.

Would reduce fuel bills utterly. Just hay, water, and the odd turnip. Wouldn't be any slower than a Pacer.

Well, as I pointed out at the top of the last page, it's been tried at Rainhill. We need Elephants, one of those could probably shift a Pacer on its own. Even better, clone some of the frozen Woolly Mammoths, they would be more suited to our climate.

 

[Clip]

Elephants are not fast enough.

 

[DownSouth]

Elephants are not fast enough.

A jolly good thing that is too, going fast is inefficient.

The best use for an elephant might be sitting on a Pacer.

 

[brianthegiant]

Unfortunately the places most suited to solar tend to be quite dusty. That means solar panels require cleaning every day to remove the sand. The abrasion caused by sand erosion also reduces their life-span significantly.
Solar panels sound good on the surface but just do not work.

Stewart,
You claim solar energy is not cost effective. You overlook that the cost of fossil fuels and Nuclear continue to rise due to scarcity vs demand and safety issues respectively.
Meanwhile the cost of renewable energy continues to fall due to increased economies of scale and R&D. a few years ago solar PV was expected to reach grid parity by 2020 (incl in the UK), rapid falls in panel prices means this will now be sooner than 2020.
Therefore countries which are net importers of energy (like the UK) which invest in Renewable energy now, improve their balance of payments and energy security in the long run.

Do you realise most of our oil imports come from Russia, and most of our coal imports from Columbia, neither countries particularly strong on democracy and human rights. Are comfortable to be heavily financing these regimes?

Output for solar is proportional to irradiance so it doesn't have to be bright direct sun for PV to work. Actually the solar resource in the UK isn't as bad as many people think especially in the south west due to the Gulf stream. Irradiance is currently rising year on year in the UK if you look a the met office data.

You are right that dust is persistent and cleaning does improve performance, however the performance loss is never more than 10%. Which in the context of very high irradiances in dusty but extremely sunny equatorial regions is small fry. With regards abrasion, I'm not convinced thats a major problem, a rougher surface might actually reduce cosine reflection losses. (the cells themselves are etched with a pyramidal surface for this very reason).

anyway cant sit on here all day educating you about solar, maybe you should read my book 'Choosing Solar Electricity'...

 

[jon0844]

I think solar has a very bright (!) future, but besides them improving to generate more energy - modern equipment in the home (and office) will consume less energy - thus enhancing the usefulness of solar panels even more.

I've now replaced pretty much all of our lighting with LED lights ranging from 3W to 9W (including the latest generation Philips 7W halogen lights for a large number of drop lights - offering a huge saving over 50W bulbs). The new bulbs have a warm light and are far better than compact fluorescent bulbs, with instant start-up at full brightness and the ability to dim them.

Our TVs consume less power when on, and in standby, and most new appliances are going to be far more energy efficient.

Ultimately, I expect that - bar kettles, vacuum cleaners or electric fan heaters/ovens - we could probably get most of the power we need from solar panels and be totally self sufficient most of the time. That would include keeping my TV and computer going.

We'd still need more juice for the big appliances, but how long are most of these things used for?

That leaves heating, which is a bigger issue, but that doesn't stop me believing in solar. I just want to wait until solar panels are cheaper before taking the plunge.

 

[NY Yankee]

Since England is surrounded by water, perhaps you can implement hydroelectricity.

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/hyhowworks.html

 

[ainsworth74]

HEP in it's traditional form would require rivers that we could dam and allow the areas behind to flood (thereby giving you the energy that the turbines use to generate electricity). Though Scotland could probably sustain a fair few more HEP plants than it does currently (also don't forget England does not equal the UK which is what I assume you meant to say ). The sea is not something that you can use in that manner so it doesn't really matter that we're surrounded by water (though there have been suggestions on occasion to use the tidal rivers like the Severn in a similar manor to normal HEP plants these plans are for now on the shelf).

 

[TGV]

Since England is surrounded by water...

I've been beaten to the point, but yes:

England is part of the UK. The UK (officially, the United Kingdon of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is England, Scotland and Wales. The British Isles is the UK and the Republic of Ireland and is a geographical term rather than a political one.

But yes, your point is valid. Tidal power has been harnessed in places before and on the face of it, being a large island, we should be candidates for it. Scotland has quite an extensive network of hydroelectric power generation but it's topography and relative lack of population leads well to that.

Oh and while it's a little off topic: can you spread the word to your fellow Americans in this Jubilee year: Queen Elizabeth II is NOT the "Queen of England" - Queen Elizabeth I was. Elizabeth II is the monarch of the commonweath nations and the UK. She should never be officially known as the Queen of England.

 

[Tiny Tim]

So, we've ruled out solar power and hamsters. However, hydro (without the electric) could work. Each train, pre-loaded with sufficient water, could create power via a water wheel. Obviously, express trains (does anyone still call them that?) would require a water turbine to facilitate speeds of over 100mph. Please, don't even think about taking this seriously.

 

[JGR]

So, we've ruled out solar power and hamsters. However, hydro (without the electric) could work. Each train, pre-loaded with sufficient water, could create power via a water wheel. Obviously, express trains (does anyone still call them that?) would require a water turbine to facilitate speeds of over 100mph. Please, don't even think about taking this seriously.

Solar power and hamsters actually could work to some extent, I don't think this could though :P

Train transport is already quite efficient compared to other forms. Putting more stuff that would be transported by air/road onto a train is a saving even if the train is a fairly thirsty diesel.
So, clearly* the answer is to build rail lines everywhere and ban airports/roads :P

*this may be a lie

 

[Rhydgaled]

Richter 1 tremors mean we shouldn't utilise the natural resources beneath our feet?

Maybe not, but given that 'utilising' these (finite) resources releases greenhouse gases to further damage our climate we should not be using these resources (I'm assuming you're talking about fracking).

Train transport is already quite efficient compared to other forms.

Generally speaking yes. I think Voyagers only work out slightly better than cars though. All the class 22x units should be converted to bi-mode.

Electrification, and lighter trains (so no weighing electrics down with tonnes of diesel engine and fuel, unfortunately you can't put wires up fast enough to take the diesel engines out of 22xs but you should be able to avoid new diesel/bi-mode Intercity trains) has to be the answer to improving the energy efficientcy of rail.

Tidal stream, hydro-electric, solar, wind and nuclear all need to start taking on a larger share of our electricity mix.

 

[HSTEd]

Being as speedlink came relatively close to breaking even in the 80s and fuel prices are far higher now than they were then, I do believe that it is possibly time for a resurgence in railfreight.

Even if a Speedlink 2 would not reach breakeven, I'm sure there is more intermodal service ripe for the taking.
But there is no capacity on the system for these trains, and HS2 is not going to help that much since people are already queuing up to use up the paths freed by it for more local passenger trains.

As to "energy mixes", we should forget about solar and wind and go all out for Nuclear.
Hydro is nice but unfortunately impractical in the UK because all the significant hydro resources are already gone.

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellis_Solar_Power_Plant

I think the success of that project is it's location .....Nevada! Not exactly renowned for UK-style weather. Plus a rather large customer in the form of Las Vegas City.

 

[PTF62]

Meanwhile the cost of renewable energy continues to fall due to increased economies of scale and R&D.

The generation part of renewable energy may be falling, but there still seems to be an issue with energy storage.

Although we may be able to generate lots of electricity from sun, wind, waves, etc, how do we store it so that we can use it when it gets dark, it is a calm day, the sea is like a millpond, etc?

Or is that where the hamsters come in?

 

[HSTEd]

Even if energy storage is assumed to have zero cost associated with it, you would still need upwards of 500GWe of nameplate wind turbines (~110GWe average production) to allow the carbon dioxide emission cuts required (you have to more than double electricity production to replace natural gas in domestic and industrial settings, even with heat pumps).