End of Steam

[Calthrop]

But what was surprising to me at the time and still today was the sudden ending of it all. I envisaged a drawn-out ending, with steam steadily petering out, rather as I believe it did in France.

No way! One Friday (August 2 that year) there were, I don't know exactly, but perhaps 35-40, maybe 50 locomotives in steam at the last three depots, and, on Monday morning - nothing. Stone cold. End of it all.

Moreover, the specific time when it happened - right in the early part of the highest period of train usage - would have been precisely the time I would not have expected it to happen. End of August, beginning of September, yes. Or almost any time of the year before, say, July 15.

OK, I suppose goods traffic would be weaker in the July-August holiday period, but even so, this timing has always amazed me.

A thing which strikes a chord with me, is a comment in the book Platform Souls -- reflections on railway enthusiasm generally, by Nicholas Whittaker. The author was born in 1957: thus knew as a child, and was captivated by, British Railways steam in its last few years. He deplores the end of BR steam in 1968, happening exactly when it did -- on aesthetic / sentimental, as distinct from practical, grounds.

He muses that BR at that time needed, but lacked, a poet or two among its high-level decision-makers -- who might have spoken (and hopefully, been heeded) in favour of keeping steam on regular passenger and freight in that last tiny area of north-west England, until the end of September -- thus allowing the enthusiasts one last full summer with steam. An extension here of the feeling often entertained, that sad though it always is when a much-loved line closes: the least bad, most "natural"-feeling time of the year for that to happen, is perhaps at the point of summer's ending and autumn's commencing.

 

[caliwag]

Aye, as has been mentioned on another thread some time back, a J36 (65345?) lingered on BR metals at Thornton to shunt the colliery sidings and exchange. This was due to the prolonged failure of the rostered diesel (a Clayton, unsprisingly?). This arrangement carried on for several months after the end of Scottish steam in 1967 until the 'authorites' found out.
Maybe someone with better documentation or memory can confirm dates and loco.

 

[341o2]

There are rumours that some steam locos were used on BR after the official end of steam. One is that a LNER B1 loco kept as a departmental carriage heating loco at Rotherham
Masborough got driven to a depot for servicing. Possibly a fisherman's tale, but who knows?

http://uk.railway.narkive.com/OeDsRHeN/final-br-steam-locomotive-movement

some indeed were retained as stationary boilers for the purpose of carriage heating
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've often wondered what would have happened if they had had a more gradual replacement of steam (say late 70s). There wouldn't have been the rush to build as many diesel locos as possible (many of which turned out to be rubbish or not needed).

Though without the rapid reduction of steam maybe the urgency would not have been there to kick start the preservation movement and we might have less steam locos these days.

I think much upon the same lines. both the rapid demise of steam plus around 1/3 of the network closed after the Beeching report.

in the final years of steam, some 16,000 locomotives were withdrawn, some only after a few years. The BR standards had a life expectancy of around 25 - 30 years, Evening Star lasted only 5 in commercial service.

such was the number of steam locomotives withdrawn that BR were unable to cope with scrapping them by themselves as had been previous policy

 

[Harbornite]

I've often wondered what would have happened if they had had a more gradual replacement of steam (say late 70s). There wouldn't have been the rush to build as many diesel locos as possible (many of which turned out to be rubbish or not needed).

Though without the rapid reduction of steam maybe the urgency would not have been there to kick start the preservation movement and we might have less steam locos these days.

It would have been better for enthusiasts, and possibly for BR as well. In the early 1960's, some new diesels were still being stationed in steam depots and this wasn't exactly good for them. There was an incident haste to get rid of steam, especially when you consider that steam in West Germany and France survived into the 70's, and even later in the Eastern bloc.

 

[Bevan Price]

A thing which strikes a chord with me, is a comment in the book Platform Souls -- reflections on railway enthusiasm generally, by Nicholas Whittaker. The author was born in 1957: thus knew as a child, and was captivated by, British Railways steam in its last few years. He deplores the end of BR steam in 1968, happening exactly when it did -- on aesthetic / sentimental, as distinct from practical, grounds.

He muses that BR at that time needed, but lacked, a poet or two among its high-level decision-makers -- who might have spoken (and hopefully, been heeded) in favour of keeping steam on regular passenger and freight in that last tiny area of north-west England, until the end of September -- thus allowing the enthusiasts one last full summer with steam. An extension here of the feeling often entertained, that sad though it always is when a much-loved line closes: the least bad, most "natural"-feeling time of the year for that to happen, is perhaps at the point of summer's ending and autumn's commencing.

Yes, steam did end prematurely. But there had been a big problem. With high employment levels, it was becoming difficult to recruit enough staff to do the hard, dirty jobs, such as loco preparation and maintenance. For example, shovelling dirty ash out of smokeboxes was less attractive than working in a largely automatic factory or a cushy office.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

It would have been better for enthusiasts, and possibly for BR as well. In the early 1960's, some new diesels were still being stationed in steam depots and this wasn't exactly good for them. There was an incident haste to get rid of steam, especially when you consider that steam in West Germany and France survived into the 70's, and even later in the Eastern bloc.

DPRK still uses steam engines from time to time. Although retired from main line and freight running, it is still possible to get a few on special tours. Mind you, a good source of information for me regarding the good burghers of North Korea had steam traction only last week in the form of 2-4-0 and 2-8-0 traction in normal passenger service!

 

[Calthrop]

Yes, steam did end prematurely. But there had been a big problem. With high employment levels, it was becoming difficult to recruit enough staff to do the hard, dirty jobs, such as loco preparation and maintenance. For example, shovelling dirty ash out of smokeboxes was less attractive than working in a largely automatic factory or a cushy office.

I gather that this issue was something a headache for railway administrations in all “First-World” countries in the latter half of the 20th century. There was an interesting twist to this scenario in the later decades of the white-supremacist regime in South Africa. That country, with a large modern steam fleet and huge coal reserves – and little oil – found it expedient, with political issues hindering trade with much of the rest of the world, to continue extensively using steam until a late date. The large black population, eager for paid employment of any kind, provided lots of folk very ready to do the dirty “grunt work” associated with steam. With the more skilled railway posts being “white-only”, to help in keeping jobs available in plenty for working-class whites; no black employee could ever hope to progress to work on the footplate.

In the latter days of South Africa’s old regime, the shortage-of-recruits problem nonetheless raised its head even there. Fewer young white chaps than were needed, would do steam-loco work even as firemen; and many of those who did take that job were – to put it politely – not of the highest calibre. This made it easy for venturesome British steam enthusiasts to emigrate to South Africa and sign on as loco firemen; I understand that a fair few, did just that. One wonders how those guys are doing nowadays – with, in SA, everyday steam long finished; the country’s railways somewhat in decline, and road transport in the ascendant; and no more employment-type preference or privilege because of one’s white skin.

DPRK still uses steam engines from time to time. Although retired from main line and freight running, it is still possible to get a few on special tours. Mind you, a good source of information for me regarding the good burghers of North Korea had steam traction only last week in the form of 2-4-0 and 2-8-0 traction in normal passenger service!

I suppose this information source is not the same one which, a while back, announced to the world that North Korean archaeologists had discovered the lair of a unicorn which was ridden to war by a Korean king of ancient times ? (In fairness, it seems to have been generally understood that this stuff was about myth and figures-of-speech -- not suggesting belief in the existence of real live unicorns, past or present.)

www.livescience.com/25208-real-story-north-korea-unicorn.html

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

DPRK still uses steam engines from time to time. Although retired from main line and freight running, it is still possible to get a few on special tours. Mind you, a good source of information for me regarding the good burghers of North Korea had steam traction only last week in the form of 2-4-0 and 2-8-0 traction in normal passenger service!

I suppose this information source is not the same one which, a while back, announced to the world that North Korean archaeologists had discovered the lair of a unicorn which was ridden to war by a Korean king of ancient times ? (In fairness, it seems to have been generally understood that this stuff was about myth and figures-of-speech -- not suggesting belief in the existence of real live unicorns, past or present.)

www.livescience.com/25208-real-story-north-korea-unicorn.html

No... A good source I have known for some years now.

Write to the DPRK railway ministry and they will send you some timetables and postcards in return. I have the address if you are interested

 

[Calthrop]

No... A good source I have known for some years now.

Write to the DPRK railway ministry and they will send you some timetables and postcards in return. I have the address if you are interested

Thank you for offer; but I think I'll "pass". I feel resigned to the fact that completely real, genuine, everyday commercial steam in the world, is at the very end of its road. It would be nice if a tiny bit somewhere, were to last until August 2018 -- 50 years after end of steam on BR -- but with the way things are going, that looks unlikely.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Didn't some rail connected industries us steam into the 80s?

and 'fireless steam' still provides an option where intrinsic safety is required

 

[Harbornite]

DPRK still uses steam engines from time to time. Although retired from main line and freight running, it is still possible to get a few on special tours. Mind you, a good source of information for me regarding the good burghers of North Korea had steam traction only last week in the form of 2-4-0 and 2-8-0 traction in normal passenger service!

I've seen adverts for railtours through North Korea in the Railway magazine, but the adverts usually show diesel locomotives.

On another note, Steam lasted until very recently on certain Chinese industrial lines, in fact it might even still be in use. Surprisingly, many of these engines were built in the 1980's and 1990's and were running on lines that are younger.

 

[Calthrop]

On another note, Steam lasted until very recently on certain Chinese industrial lines, in fact it might even still be in use. Surprisingly, many of these engines were built in the 1980's and 1990's and were running on lines that are younger.

From the latest that I gather (things seem against me just now, as regards looking up references), a few industrial lines in China are still using steam at the present day; but their number is ever-dwindling. It truly does feel like "the end times" for real bread-and-butter steam.

 

[The Crab]

On the industrial front I think Crossley's scrapyard, Shipley (nr Bradford) used steam in the 1990s (1993 rings a faint bell).

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I've seen adverts for railtours through North Korea in the Railway magazine, but the adverts usually show diesel locomotives.

If you ask the right people, you get steam. I wonder if North Korea is the only place where you can reasonably expect diesel or electric and get steam instead

 

[scarby]

Interesting subject.

Here's the B1 at Rotherham:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5994567491/

It says there "c 69" but other info suggests this loco was cut up 31/10/68.

???

Who knows when it last moved under its own power and whether it did so when it was used as a boiler.

 

[181]

From the latest that I gather (things seem against me just now, as regards looking up references), a few industrial lines in China are still using steam at the present day; but their number is ever-dwindling. It truly does feel like "the end times" for real bread-and-butter steam.

The May 'Railway Magazine' has a brief report on Chinese steam, which says that there are 'only around two dozen daily working steam locomotives', and that this number is likely to decline further in the near future.

Those who don't know about it already may be interested in this site. It may take a bit of looking to find the information among older reports and those on preserved/tourist type operations and museums, and it doesn't include updates from China, but it does contain information on the few remaining 'real' steam operations elsewhere, and the last such operations in various places where it has now ceased.

Going by the latest reports available on that site, as far as Europe is concerned (I haven't read through all the other sections), non-preserved coal-burning steam activity is now restricted to a very small amount in Bosnia. Fireless activity can be found at a few locations in Germany, one in Austria and one in Slovenia; I suspect that this may continue for quite a while yet -- if you have an industrial plant that produces steam anyway and a fireless loco, you might as well continue using it, as it lacks many of the disadvantages that 'proper steam' locomotives, however much we enthusiasts like them, undoubtedly have.

It will probably be difficult to define an exact worldwide 'end of steam', as some locations gradually metamorphose into tourist operations, and others keep steam locomotives in reserve for occasional use well after they've ceased to be used regularly.

 

[Calthrop]

The May 'Railway Magazine' has a brief report on Chinese steam, which says that there are 'only around two dozen daily working steam locomotives', and that this number is likely to decline further in the near future.

Those who don't know about it already may be interested in this site. It may take a bit of looking to find the information among older reports and those on preserved/tourist type operations and museums, and it doesn't include updates from China, but it does contain information on the few remaining 'real' steam operations elsewhere, and the last such operations in various places where it has now ceased.

Going by the latest reports available on that site, as far as Europe is concerned (I haven't read through all the other sections), non-preserved coal-burning steam activity is now restricted to a very small amount in Bosnia. Fireless activity can be found at a few locations in Germany, one in Austria and one in Slovenia; I suspect that this may continue for quite a while yet -- if you have an industrial plant that produces steam anyway and a fireless loco, you might as well continue using it, as it lacks many of the disadvantages that 'proper steam' locomotives, however much we enthusiasts like them, undoubtedly have.

I spend a good deal of time on the linked-to site, and delight in it; but (as you touch on) it doesn't furnish unerring totally-up-to-the-minute gen on real steam worldwide -- does its best, but has at same time, other objectives as well. "Off top of head", I gather (subject to recent bad news) that there is also still a modicum of steam active in the season, on narrow-gauge sugar-cane railways in Java -- maybe, in Indonesia, also on lines serving palm-oil plantations? And the copper-nickel mines at Selebi-Pikwe in Botswana, use ex-main-line steam locos on their private trackage which connects with the main line.

Fireless locomotives do next to nothing for me, I'm afraid -- I don't consider them "proper steam". That's just me -- I enjoy being a miserable, negative ultra-purist !

It will probably be difficult to define and exact worldwide 'end of steam', as some locations gradually metamorphose into tourist operations, and others keep steam locomotives in reserve for occasional use well after they've ceased to be used regularly.

As above -- just for me, "ultra-purist", etc. -- it counts as "real" for me only if it's used regularly, in strictly commercial (not tourist-and-gricer-inveigling) service, because it's what's there and it's what those in charge of the operation choose to have in use. I agree: with the prospective "morphings" as cited, date of the ultimate end of true regular steam, is likely to be hard to determine.

And there are endless potential hairsplittings concerning this stuff. What if the industrialist in charge is running a genuine commercial concern, but is a steam enthusiast and uses steam locos because he likes them, even though the cost is greater than it would be with modern traction? I forget the details, but seem to recall from a few decades ago, a steelworks or similar plant somewhere in the Midwest of the US, whose owner was a steam-rail fan, and thus continued to use steam locos to shunt his outfit, for many years after commercial steam anywhere else in the States had totally vanished.

 

[181]

Fireless locomotives do next to nothing for me, I'm afraid -- I don't consider them "proper steam". That's just me -- I enjoy being a miserable, negative ultra-purist !

As you say, different people see things differently -- I would count fireless locos, but in a distinct category.

just for me, "ultra-purist", etc. -- it counts as "real" for me only if it's used regularly, in strictly commercial (not tourist-and-gricer-inveigling) service, because it's what's there and it's what those in charge of the operation choose to have in use.

As a definition of 100% 'real' steam I'd agree with that (except that I'd allow occasional use, e.g. to cover diesel overhauls); for me (not dismissing other people's right to see things differently) the percentage can be rather less than 100% before it becomes just another preserved operation (not that there's anything wrong with those, but that's not what we're discussing here). For example I used to liken the Wolsztyn operation in Poland to an African national park which would have been turned into farmland if it hadn't been for the tourists, but within which the animals were still living fairly naturally -- probably not the same for people like you who experienced 100% 'real' standard gauge steam when it still existed elsewhere in Poland, but close enough for those of us who got there a few years later.

I agree: with the prospective "morphings" as cited, date of the ultimate end of true regular steam, is likely to be hard to determine.

Furthermore, once steam usage in a particular place becomes only occasional, enthusiasts are less likely to visit and so we're less likely to hear about it.

And there are endless potential hairsplittings concerning this stuff. What if the industrialist in charge is running a genuine commercial concern, but is a steam enthusiast and uses steam locos because he likes them, even though the cost is greater than it would be with modern traction? I forget the details, but seem to recall from a few decades ago, a steelworks or similar plant somewhere in the Midwest of the US, whose owner was a steam-rail fan, and thus continued to use steam locos to shunt his outfit, for many years after commercial steam anywhere else in the States had totally vanished.

This place, I think. See also this article about the man in question.

While looking up that I came across another interesting example of semi-'real' steam from Illinois: The Crab Orchard and Egyptian Railway started off as a steam-worked tourist line, took to carrying freight as well, abandoned its passenger operations, and then dieselised as late as 1986.

 

[bradford758]

On the industrial front I think Crossley's scrapyard, Shipley (nr Bradford) used steam in the 1990s (1993 rings a faint bell).

During my time it's always been diesel operated (the diesel shunter looked a bit like a steam shunter so could easily be mistaken). [emoji1]

But I have a feeling there was a steam shunter *parked* there in the late 70s, before they got a new diesel one and parked the old one where the loco was ...


I might be thinking of somewhere else though ..................



Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

 

[Redonian]

The up to date position with regard to Chinese steam can be found at :
www.sy-country.co.uk/
The news page has a link to a webcam overlooking Wulong Yard at Fuxin. Two SY 2-8-2's were visible working earlier today.

 

[Calthrop]

This place, I think. See also this article about the man in question.

While looking up that I came across another interesting example of semi-'real' steam from Illinois: The Crab Orchard and Egyptian Railway started off as a steam-worked tourist line, took to carrying freight as well, abandoned its passenger operations, and then dieselised as late as 1986.

That’s the guy and the location: P.W. Dillon of Northwestern Steel & Wire, Sterling, Illinois. I recall 1970s trip reports by the group “To Europe for Steam” featuring visits to this venue. In those times, it seems that “Illinois was the place” – what with the Crab Orchard & Egyptian Railway in that state also. It would seem that “TEFS” did not go there: to best of my knowledge, this is the first that I have ever heard of this undertaking – the colourfully bizarre name would tend, otherwise, to stick in the memory. A marvellous tale, this one, of events unfolding in the opposite order to normal. One has to feel, “only in the USA !”

A US late-in-the-day steam operation which has always appealed to me, is the Reader Railroad in back-of-beyond rural Arkansas – from the late-19th-century start of its career, passed through various “phases and forms”. In the 1950s, was in the shape of a 20-plus-mile standard-gauge line from Reader (junction with the larger US rail network) to Waterloo, location of a small oilfield with an on-site refinery, which had become the chief source of traffic. At a rather low ebb in the mid-1950s, line was purchased and renovated by a local businessman, Tom M. Long; who was involved in serious commerce, but was also a railroad and steam enthusiast, determined to continue to work the line with steam. Under his regime trains ran “mixed”, operating a public passenger service; and a common-carrier freight one, the bulk of the traffic being from the oil refinery. With general turmoil on the oil scene in the early / mid-1970s, the refinery closed, and Long found himself compelled to close the railway and sell up. A few miles were acquired by a preservation society, which I gather operated until 1991, when they found themselves unable to meet new federal safety regulations. No trains have been run for the public since then; though the society is still in being, and track and installations are still there – the line has seen considerable use for film-making.

Mr. Long – I gather, a formidable Southern gentleman – feels like a chap after my own heart, in that he was passionate about his railroad coming across as a serious and totally genuine one: tourists were by no means turned away, but he abhorred the various gaudy gimmicks and “staged dramas” which many US preserved steam operations are inclined towards, in attempts to drum up custom. As a contemporary local comment put it, “Mister Tom don’t ‘low no cowboys an’ Injuns 'round his railroad.”

(Attempted link follows: hopefully, "typing it in" may work.)

railroadglorydays.com/Reader/

The up to date position with regard to Chinese steam can be found at :
www.sy-country.co.uk/
The news page has a link to a webcam overlooking Wulong Yard at Fuxin. Two SY 2-8-2's were visible working earlier today.

Thanks for this link -- a most valuable resource, hitherto unknown to me. Things basically look not too good -- but we're not yet at the complete end of the road !

 

[70014IronDuke]

... I recall 1970s trip reports by the group “To Europe for Steam” featuring visits to this venue. In those times, it seems that “Illinois was the place” – what with the Crab Orchard & Egyptian Railway in that state also. It would seem that “TEFS” did not go there:
....

<SNIP interesting stuff>
...

TEFS - now THAT IS a real blast from the past. Run by ........ I forget his name, but he was from Loughborough, I think.

I was a contributor to TEFS. In those days TEFS was an A4 size typed newsletter - maybe 12 pages long every month or so. Perhaps they are still stuck in a box in an old friend's attic.

I can't remember how much it cost - perhaps £5 ? a year or some such, but you got a discount if you sent in news of steam that you'd see on your travels.

I only ever did one TEFS trip - to Poland in 1975. To me, it was a disaster. We never reached the lineside until 10.00 or 10.30 at the earliest, and nobody in the entire party understood the faintest about getting a decent working steam shot. Nice people, sure, but from my point of view, as a photographer, it was a near total waste of money and time.

 

[Spamcan81]

TEFS - now THAT IS a real blast from the past. Run by ........ I forget his name, but he was from Loughborough, I think.

I was a contributor to TEFS. In those days TEFS was an A4 size typed newsletter - maybe 12 pages long every month or so. Perhaps they are still stuck in a box in an old friend's attic.

I can't remember how much it cost - perhaps £5 ? a year or some such, but you got a discount if you sent in news of steam that you'd see on your travels.

I only ever did one TEFS trip - to Poland in 1975. To me, it was a disaster. We never reached the lineside until 10.00 or 10.30 at the earliest, and nobody in the entire party understood the faintest about getting a decent working steam shot. Nice people, sure, but from my point of view, as a photographer, it was a near total waste of money and time.

Bill Alborough is the guy you're thinking of. Did TEFS to Poland in 1990 and Cuba in 1992. Happily we didn't have the problems you did although from experience of other group trips I did before organising my own tours abroad, I find it hard to believe that nobody other than you knew owt about photography. Had a Dutch guy on an SA trip once. He had a similar opinion as you regarding the rest of the group. Mind you, he always wanted to go "dark side" as opposed to "sunny side". You're not him are you?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

During my time it's always been diesel operated (the diesel shunter looked a bit like a steam shunter so could easily be mistaken). [emoji1]

But I have a feeling there was a steam shunter *parked* there in the late 70s, before they got a new diesel one and parked the old one where the loco was ...


I might be thinking of somewhere else though ..................



Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

There was a Barclay 0-4-0ST named Harry at that yard. Was there in the early 80s but can't recall when it last turned a wheel in anger. Here's a picture of it at work in the 1980s. Not my photo.
"Harry" hard at work. by mark neale, on Flickr

 

[Calthrop]

TEFS - now THAT IS a real blast from the past. Run by ........ I forget his name, but he was from Loughborough, I think.

I was a contributor to TEFS. In those days TEFS was an A4 size typed newsletter - maybe 12 pages long every month or so. Perhaps they are still stuck in a box in an old friend's attic.

I can't remember how much it cost - perhaps £5 ? a year or some such, but you got a discount if you sent in news of steam that you'd see on your travels.

I only ever did one TEFS trip - to Poland in 1975. To me, it was a disaster. We never reached the lineside until 10.00 or 10.30 at the earliest, and nobody in the entire party understood the faintest about getting a decent working steam shot. Nice people, sure, but from my point of view, as a photographer, it was a near total waste of money and time.

Bill Alborough is the guy you're thinking of. Did TEFS to Poland in 1990 and Cuba in 1992. Happily we didn't have the problems you did...

Ah, yes, TEFS and Bill Alborough ! I too, only ever went on one of the outfit's trips -- a long-weekend effort to East Germany in 1980, not actually featuring Bill. This venture struck me as very well-organised, with photographers' requirements excellently seen to (though mind you, I'm not a photter myself). I was close to going on a few other TEFS trips, but in various ways, circumstances prevented my doing so. I was on the TEFS mailing list for a good many years; in part because their newsletters were entertaining, and often informative.

Not wanting to sound morbid; but I do wonder whether Bill Alborough is still alive? I recall that he had some quite serious health issues...

 

[bradford758]

Thanks for the above, Spamcan81

Also local to Shipley, April 1984 saw the reopened Saltaire station served by a steam train for one day only.
There was a regular service throughout the day, Bradford Forster Square to Keighley, calling at Saltaire (think it also called at Bingley and Shipley).
To follow the thread, this was a service train. Special tickets were issued on the day, at around the normal fare, but valid on any train between Bradford and Keighley as long as you alighted or boarded at Saltaire including the normal service trains.

Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

 

[Calthrop]

A small local oddity on the "end of steam" theme, recalled to my mind by a recent few days on the Isle of Wight. There is on sale at various outlets on the Island -- including at the Isle of Wight Steam Railway's Haven Street headquarters -- a postcard showing various views of steam action on the preserved line. The caption, on the non-picture side, begins: "The Isle of Wight was the last area of the United Kingdom to run steam trains in regular service..." I take it that those words did not proceed from an IOWSR source; because they are of course blatantly wrong. Regular steam elsewhere on BR lasted for another nineteen months after its end on the Island -- and lasted longer still in Northern Ireland (and this is leaving aside the anomaly of the Vale of Rheidol line).

I have in the past written to the IOWSR, pointing out this inaccuracy; but they did not see fit to reply. One assumes, reaction along the lines of "something too petty to be worth the bother and, likely, expense, of altering"; and / or "almost nobody reads the captions on postcards anyway".

I wonder whether whoever originally came up with this bit of postcard misinformation was -- rather than being totally clueless -- conflating "what might have happened" with "what did happen". It is gathered that in the late 1950s / early 60s, BR floated a possible plan for replacing the IOW's aged 02 0-4-4Ts, with modern 2-6-2Ts of the class of no. 41298, recently restored to working order on the IOWSR; and -- with "tourist-bait" ideas -- for these locos to work services on the Island's surviving lines, indefinitely -- quite possibly after the end of BR steam on the mainland. A thing whose occurrence would have been nice; but it wasn't to be,

 

[Harbornite]

I see that China and Bosnia have both been mentioned. Steam locomotives were being built there for industrial use until the 1980s and some of the lines they served on were built after then. I recently read an article in the RM which was about Bosnian steam. The locos in use included an ex DR class 52 kreigslok (classified as a class 33 in Bosnia) and an American tank engine, not unlike those once used at Southampton.

 

[Calthrop]

On general “end of steam” theme: sad material on-line about a week ago, in the Summer newsletter of “FarRail Tours”, run by Bernd Seiler – who would seem to have his finger very much on the pulse of global “real” steam. Quoting therefrom:

“Over the last few years the phrase ‘the last time’ or ‘the very last time’ has been used far too often when talking about the use of steam locomotives. But now these phrases have changed to becoming facts.

The hard, dirty, daily use of steam is close to becoming extinct. Indonesia dumped almost all its steam locomotives last year and China is following right now. The suggestion that Fuxin might be the last hotspot of steam will prove wrong. It probably won’t be Sandaoling, where we’ll run a farewell tour in December, either. Maybe it’ll be in Africa, namely Botswana... who knows? For sure, Sandaoling alone seems to remain a photographically satisfying location, and this for less than a year if rumours can be banked on. Then it’ll become dark for the enthusiasts of steam and only the preserved lines and charter trains might brighten up the darkness a bit.” (my bolding).

Not greatly for me, who am a fanatical purist -- in my rather bleak view: preserved lines, a bit of brightening; purely-for-me, you can stuff charter trains where the sun doesn't shine.

Quoting self from a little while back, re totally-real steam:

It would be nice if a tiny bit somewhere, were to last until August 2018 -- 50 years after end of steam on BR -- but with the way things are going, that looks unlikely.

If Bernd in his latest, is right: 48 years can be looked at (only seven weeks to go, after all) -- but 50 is appearing very unlikely indeed.

 

[Harbornite]

Not greatly for me, who am a fanatical purist -- in my rather bleak view: preserved lines, a bit of brightening; purely-for-me, you can stuff charter trains where the sun doesn't shine.

That was a rather sobering post, but at least steam has had a good innings. On another note, why do you dislike charter trains so much?

 

[Calthrop]

On another note, why do you dislike charter trains so much?

I admit that I’m a miserable devil, determined to take a negative view of the preservation of steam worldwide -- rather than focus on all the good things about it (because there is, sure as heck, about to be no other kind of working steam in the world). The frustrating thing for me, is that the delight of the steam railway which I knew early in my life, was that its purpose was utilitarian – taking people and goods where they needed to go – and this just happened to be achieved by a delectable method of propulsion. I accept, rather reluctantly, that it’s better still to have steam kept going for its own sake, than to have no working steam whatever; but I find preserved steam at its very best, a sad travesty of what the whole thing used to feel like and be about.

“Very best” for me, is a good self-contained preserved line, of a moderately decent length, basically linking at least “halfway-genuine” places with each other, by regularly scheduled services. Venues like this give for me some slight semblance of what used to be; and have for me the saving grace of carrying a payload of people who travel for the sake of the ride, but are not actually railway enthusiasts. If this scene featured nothing but “railfans playing trains”, I don’t think I could stomach it. “Charter” workings, usually one-off, and operating over steamless modern rail systems (needing various complicated “un-real” expedients, to make this possible); and carrying either, overwhelmingly, railway enthusiasts; or nothing – strike me as utterly contrived and artificial: to the point of inspiring in me far more revulsion, than pleasure.