End of First Class?

[deltic]

Extract from Local Transport Today

"Chiltern Railways has launched a service for business travellers which it believes could lead to the end of first class rail travel in the UK.

The Business Zone is modelled on similar products in the aviation industry and is designed to provide the business benefits of first class at low cost. Passengers travel in a private 30-seat carriage with large tables, wide seats, extra legroom, an ‘always-on’ Wi-fi connection and plug sockets at every seat. The £20 upgrade is considerably lower cost than the usual first class differential charged by other operators.

“Businesses told us that space to work and a decent internet connection were absolutely essential,” said Thomas Ableman, Chiltern marketing director. “What they didn’t value was paying over £100 extra for a sandwich, pretzels and a single glass of wine. We believe the Business Zone creates a new class of travel that could signal the end of first class business travel across the industry.”"

Given the amount other operators must make out of first class passengers not sure they would agree with Chiltern's view

 

[LexyBoy]

Discussed here to some extent.

Other operators already change their FC provision to cater for the customer requirements - they might make FC more like a "business zone" than a luxury option, but I can't see it disappearing.

Chiltern's business model doesn't include first class, but they recieved ex-WSMR stock which includes FC coaches, so they've come to a compromise situation.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Perhaps it will make Virgin finally introduce an Off-peak First Class return ticket to plug the gap in price between an Advance First ticket (very cheap) and an Anytime First single or return (ludicrously expensive).

East Coast are now doing Off-peak First Class returns which do not have many restrictions; e.g. from Leeds it is valid on the 08.15 and all later trains, and on any train to return from London. This is around £100 cheaper than a First Anytime return, and presumably not that much more expensive than a Standard Anytime return.

Surely Virgin have scope to fill some of their spare First Class capacity at off-peak times? I'm sure this has been discussed many times already on this forum though!

 

[junglejames]

Extract from Local Transport Today

"Chiltern Railways has launched a service for business travellers which it believes could lead to the end of first class rail travel in the UK.

The Business Zone is modelled on similar products in the aviation industry and is designed to provide the business benefits of first class at low cost. Passengers travel in a private 30-seat carriage with large tables, wide seats, extra legroom, an ‘always-on’ Wi-fi connection and plug sockets at every seat. The £20 upgrade is considerably lower cost than the usual first class differential charged by other operators.

“Businesses told us that space to work and a decent internet connection were absolutely essential,” said Thomas Ableman, Chiltern marketing director. “What they didn’t value was paying over £100 extra for a sandwich, pretzels and a single glass of wine. We believe the Business Zone creates a new class of travel that could signal the end of first class business travel across the industry.”"

Given the amount other operators must make out of first class passengers not sure they would agree with Chiltern's view

If passengers dont like paying £100 for some pretzels and sandwiches (some offer a lot less!), then why dont Chiltern now offer a full first class offering, minus the free meals, for a lot less than £100?

 

[jopsuk]

I'd like to see it go from more of the commuter routes. At peak, it seems just wrong to have a 1st class that's bascially "pay more, be more likley (though not guarenteed) to get a seat that's the same as standard class", and off peak it's a swindle taking money from people that don't know what they're paying for till they get on the train.

 

[wintonian]

Extract from Local Transport Today

"Chiltern Railways has launched a service for business travellers which it believes could lead to the end of first class rail travel in the UK.

The Business Zone is modelled on similar products in the aviation industry and is designed to provide the business benefits of first class at low cost. Passengers travel in a private 30-seat carriage with large tables, wide seats, extra legroom, an ‘always-on’ Wi-fi connection and plug sockets at every seat. The £20 upgrade is considerably lower cost than the usual first class differential charged by other operators.

“Businesses told us that space to work and a decent internet connection were absolutely essential,” said Thomas Ableman, Chiltern marketing director. “What they didn’t value was paying over £100 extra for a sandwich, pretzels and a single glass of wine. We believe the Business Zone creates a new class of travel that could signal the end of first class business travel across the industry.”"

Given the amount other operators must make out of first class passengers not sure they would agree with Chiltern's view

Sounds better than first class on SWT or Southern!

 

[jopsuk]

1st on Southern or SWT is luxury compared to 1st on a FCC or NXEA 317/5. And I appreciate 1st on the 377s and 450s is hardly outstanding.

 

[AlterEgo]

Perhaps it will make Virgin finally introduce an Off-peak First Class return ticket to plug the gap in price between an Advance First ticket (very cheap) and an Anytime First single or return (ludicrously expensive).

a FSS is available between Birmingham Intl and London and vice versa, and has been for some time.

 

[All Line Rover]

Ha! It'll never happen.

TOC's - particularly InterCity TOC's - are increasingly reliant on leisure travellers to fill up their First Class carriages - with the advent of Advance First tickets and what not.

If Virgin, East Coast, or any similar TOC replaced First Class with "Business Class," I can guarantee that they will see an instant drop in "First Class" passengers, and an instant drop in revenue!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

a FSS is available between Birmingham Intl and London and vice versa, and has been for some time.

That's a very strange station from which to be offering First Off-Peak tickets. At £168 return, it's not much of a saving on £240 return for a First Anytime ticket. And who prices the FSS? Avantix is blank!

I am of the opinion that Virgin should introduce First Off-Peak tickets. Some of their trains - in particular Birmingham/Manchester to London - are very quiet in First Class during the Off-Peak hours. You can often have a coach to yourself!

A Manchester to London First Anytime ticket costs £399 return. I think a First Off-Peak ticket should cost £179 return. That may seem like a massive drop (it's also £100 cheaper than the Standard Anytime return!) but the Anytime tickets are ludicrously expensive, and only exist to squeeze every last penny out of business travellers on expenses. There are plenty of £34.50 First Advance tickets during the Off-Peak hours (£69 return), so £179 would be a significant, but not overly excessive, mark-up.

A Birmingham to London First Anytime ticket costs £240 return. I think a First Off-Peak ticket should cost £129 return, for similar reasons to the above.

 

[deltic]

Ha! It'll never happen.

TOC's - particularly InterCity TOC's - are increasingly reliant on leisure travellers to fill up their First Class carriages - with the advent of Advance First tickets and what not.

If Virgin, East Coast, or any similar TOC replaced First Class with "Business Class," I can guarantee that they will see an instant drop in "First Class" passengers, and an instant drop in revenue!

My view entirely

 

[All Line Rover]

“Businesses told us that space to work and a decent internet connection were absolutely essential,” said Thomas Ableman, Chiltern marketing director. “What they didn’t value was paying over £100 extra for a sandwich, pretzels and a single glass of wine. We believe the Business Zone creates a new class of travel that could signal the end of first class business travel across the industry.”"

I do notice that he used the phrase "the end of first class business travel." He didn't mention "first class leisure travel," did he? And it's impossible to scrap First Class Business travel without scrapping First Class leisure travel at the same time! :roll:

 

[sonic2009]

On NFM 10 I don't get any FSR for £180 between Birmingham International and London Euston?

 

[All Line Rover]

On NFM 10 I don't get any FSR for £180 between Birmingham International and London Euston?

Only an FSS is available.

 

[AlterEgo]

Only an FSS is available.

Indeed.

I believe the FSS EUS-BHI is to encourage corporate and leisure First Class travel from the airport - people who need a little flexibility. Often it's sold from the airport as the return leg, with an Advance making up the inward leg.

Similar principle to "Airport Advance" and the Saver Half products.

I am not sure how popular the ticket is.