ENCTS passholders

[Smethwickian]

Apologies if anyone has already mentioned this, but I've just come across this via a Worcestershire County Council press release.

http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cm...2012/september/concessionary-train-fares.aspx

County Council encourages concessionary pass holders to take advantage of discount train tickets

Worcestershire County Council is encouraging all holders of concessionary bus passes for senior and disabled users to take advantage of discount train tickets on offer as part of a new trial.

The year-long trial, which started on September 2, allows concessionary pass holders to claim discounted fares on certain journeys by simply producing their passes, rather than purchasing an annual Senior or Disabled Persons Railcard - costing up to £28.

Discounts of one-third off the usual prices will be available on off-peak trains (between 9.30am and 11.00pm on weekdays, and all day during weekends and bank holidays) on First Great Western routes between Worcester (both Foregate Street and Shrub Hill stations) and Swindon via Stroud.

If the Central Government trial is successful it's possible the benefits could be extended allowing Concessionary Passes to be used in get further train travel discounts.

Councillor John Smith OBE, cabinet member for transport and highways, said: "We're delighted to support this initiative, which cuts the cost of train travel for our senior and disabled residents. I'd like to encourage all holders of concessionary travel passes to use them on the route to get money off their journeys during the trial period."

Anyone know of other trial locations where such an additional discount (over and above existing local availability on trains/trams etc where applicable) is being made available?

 

[barrykas]

Anyone know of other trial locations where such an additional discount (over and above existing local availability on trains/trams etc where applicable) is being made available?

The two trial routes are Weymouth - Westbury, and intermediately (including Dorchester South) and Swindon - Worcester Foregate Street via Stroud (and intermediately).

34% discount applies to all Standard Class walk up Singles and Returns and will be available from 0930 - 2300 Mondays to Fridays and all day at weekends and public holidays.

 

[Bungle73]

Since when did after 11pm become "peak".

Also this would be bad if it completely replaced Railcards as DSB Railcards are valid on ANY train.

 

[34D]

Since when did after 11pm become "peak".

Also this would be bad if it completely replaced Railcards as DSB Railcards are valid on ANY train.

The standard times for ENCTS passes being valid on buses are 09:30 to 23:00. Granted, many areas extend the time limit to the end of service.

 

[Bungle73]

But we're not talking about buses, we're talking about trains. Like I said, it would be very bad if the powers that be decided to use this as an excuse to get rid of the relevant Railcards.

 

[barrykas]

But we're not talking about buses, we're talking about trains. Like I said, it would be very bad if the powers that be decided to use this as an excuse to get rid of the relevant Railcards.

Whilst we're not talking about buses, I expect it's to make it "simpler" by having the same validity for rail and bus or something...And yes, I do realise that some Councils allow free/discounted travel outside the "core" ENCTS hours.

Withdrawal of the Senior and Disabled Railcards would be pretty bad for the TOCs/ATOC as well, given the amount of revenue they currently receive from sales of same!

 

[bb21]

From The Manual:

English National Concessionary Travel Pass

First Great Western is to run a DfT Pilot Scheme offering 34% discount on all walk-up singles and return tickets to holders of English National Concessionary Travel Passes (which give free bus travel to the over-60s). The trial will last for one year until 1 September 2013.
Discounts

Standard Class walk up single and return tickets – 34%
First Class walk up single and return tickets – 34%
Season Tickets and Advance tickets are excluded from the trial.
Validity

Validity will be as per the terms of the bus pass, i.e. discount will be available between 09:30 and 23:00 Monday to Friday and all day at weekends and on public holidays. Travel with discounted tickets must be completed within these times.
Area of validity

Journeys between Weymouth and Westbury and all stations inclusive.
Journeys between Swindon and Worcester Foregate Street and all stations inclusive.
Travel will be available with all operators serving the flows concerned.
Ticketing

Discount to be implemented in the 'Railcard' format, i.e. the customer presents their bus pass as they would a Railcard. The legend ‘ENCTS’ will appear on the ticket in the Railcard field.

Discount code: ENCTS

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . Withdrawal of the Senior and Disabled Railcards would be pretty bad for the TOCs/ATOC as well, given the amount of revenue they currently receive from sales of same!

Conversely, the Rail Operators are carrying a large number of long distance passengers every day, often in first class, who are using a Senior Railcard to reduce the cost of their travel for work. The majority of these journeys will begin well before 9:30am.
There's significant potential ticket revenue to be made by restricting the use of the Senior Railcard by those in paid emloyment who could probably afford to pay the full fare and may be travelling at their employer's or business' expense.

I doubt the TOCs will be unhappy at this initiative,

but many unhappy passengers, I suspect!

 

[Ivo]

Does this apply to holders of all ENCTS passes, not just ones local to the Worcester to Weymouth corridor? And would the fact that a disabled pass is used in lieu of the Disabled Railcard mean that First Class discounts are also available?

And why am I only learning about this now?

Oh wait - never mind; bb21 already answered the FC bit. I might have to give this a try on a CNM-SWI HST

 

[Bungle73]

Withdrawal of the Senior and Disabled Railcards would be pretty bad for the TOCs/ATOC as well, given the amount of revenue they currently receive from sales of same!

Revenue that will no doubt start to dry up once this scheme is in place. Then before you know it it will be "Not enough people are buying DSB and SNR Railcards, they're not economical; let's get rid of them".

The more I think about this the more I think it would be bad for the public in the end. I read it is a sneaky attempt to do away with DSB and SNR railcards by the TOCS.

Conversely, the Rail Operators are carrying a large number of long distance passengers every day, often in first class, who are using a Senior Railcard to reduce the cost of their travel for work. The majority of these journeys will begin well before 9:30am.
There's significant potential ticket revenue to be made by restricting the use of the Senior Railcard by those in paid emloyment who could probably afford to pay the full fare and may be travelling at their employer's or business' expense.

I doubt the TOCs will be unhappy at this initiative,

but many unhappy passengers, I suspect!

I was all ready to post that you can't use a SNR Railcard in the morning peak - my mum has one - but then I read that restriction only applies in London and the South East! Surely that's discrimination??

 

[34D]

Does this apply to holders of all ENCTS passes, not just ones local to the Worcester to Weymouth corridor?

This is a very good question. However, if someone from Worcester can get a discounted ticket to weymouth, you'd like to think that someone from Manchester can purchase the same worcester-weymouth ticket. Quite how this affects a 'route maltese cross any permitted' ticket I do not know.

 

[brompton rail]

Revenue that will no doubt start to dry up once this scheme is in place. Then before you know it it will be "Not enough people are buying DSB and SNR Railcards, they're not economical; let's get rid of them".

The more I think about this the more I think it would be bad for the public in the end. I read it is a sneaky attempt to do away with DSB and SNR railcards by the TOCS.

I believe, though am unable to quote the relevant legislation, that Senior (and probably Disabled) Railcards were protected in the privatisation legislation. I.e. the TOCs had to offer and honour them.

Anyway they offer a much wider range of discounts than the ENTC pass does in the trial area.

 

[34D]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-study-offers-bus-pass-holders-a-third-off-train-travel - DfT press release. May interest some.

 

[34D]

Is anyone aware of how this trial is judged to have gone?

 

[Smethwickian]

I noted leaflets advertising the discount were still on show in Swindon ticket office about three weeks ago, so can only presume either the experiment has been extended or it has been made permanent. Can anyone confirm either way?

 

[34D]

Does anyone know if this trial is still ongoing, please?

Have any reports/conclusions from it been published?

Thanks

 

[andythebrave]

I know that Central Beds ENCTS holders get 50% off when travelling on the Marston Vale line and between Bedford and Elstree, and Sandy/Royston and Hadley Wood/Crews Hill. Bedford Borough holders get the same but without, I believe, the Marston Vale. Discounts valid after 10:00.

 

[Metrailway]

Does anyone know if this trial is still ongoing, please?

Have any reports/conclusions from it been published?

Thanks

A final report by FGW was published on the gov.uk site in April 2014:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/301568/senior-concessionary-trial-final.pdf

 

[CyrusWuff]

KnowledgeBase says the discount is continuing on the trial routes until further notice.

 

[Haywain]

I know that Central Beds ENCTS holders get 50% off when travelling on the Marston Vale line and between Bedford and Elstree, and Sandy/Royston and Hadley Wood/Crews Hill. Bedford Borough holders get the same but without, I believe, the Marston Vale. Discounts valid after 10:00.

The various councils of Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire have had a joint discount scheme for their own bus pass holders for many years. They cover Elstree to Bedford on Thameslink and Hadley Wood/Crews Hill to Sandy/Royston.

 

[bkhtele]

Yes in the Fgw limited area outlined above, we were advised last week that the discount is continuing at 34% until further notice.

 

[gray1404]

Just to confirm though are currently no plans whatsoever ever to get rid of the SNR or DIS Railcards

 

[34D]

The various councils of Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire have had a joint discount scheme for their own bus pass holders for many years. They cover Elstree to Bedford on Thameslink and Hadley Wood/Crews Hill to Sandy/Royston.

Indeed yes. Do we have a thread somewhere listing all the various local permutations for local ENCTS holders?

Section 2.6 of the FAQ hints on it, but doesn't give detail.

The trial that was undertaken covered (if I remember correctly) people with ENCTS cards from anywhere, to give the 33% discount on those routes.

Interesting report

 

[neilmc]

An obvious discrepancy is that I can buy and use a Senior Railcard from age 60, but in all cases I am paying two-thirds the normal ticket cost as well as the initial outlay for the Railcard so the TOCs don't do badly out of me.

Whereas I am not yet entitled to an ENCTS pass entitling me to free bus travel, and whatever rail concessions are in place locally, until my normal (revised) retirement age which is currently 65 years and over 7 months.

 

[34D]

An obvious discrepancy is that I can buy and use a Senior Railcard from age 60, but in all cases I am paying two-thirds the normal ticket cost as well as the initial outlay for the Railcard so the TOCs don't do badly out of me.

Whereas I am not yet entitled to an ENCTS pass entitling me to free bus travel, and whatever rail concessions are in place locally, until my normal (revised) retirement age which is currently 65 years and over 7 months.

If the senior and disabled railcards do indeed get phased out because of this, that will be regarded (by TOC's) as a good thing.

How this would affect those with Scottish and Welsh cards (that are offered from age 60) I do not know.

 

[John @ home]

Welcome back, 34D!

If the senior and disabled railcards do indeed get phased out because of this, that will be regarded (by TOC's) as a good thing.

That is not my opinion. Train companies and their trade association have made several statements welcoming the increase in the number of Railcards in use.

It is implied, but not stated explicitly, that they assume the total revenue from a Railcard is at least as much as they would obtain from the holder(s) without that Railcard. This leaves the net payment for each Railcard as additional income for the train companies and ATOC.

See, for example, "Passengers reap £20m of savings a year after the launch of the Two Together Railcard".

 

[brompton rail]

Welcome back, 34D!That is not my opinion. Train companies and their trade association have made several statements welcoming the increase in the number of Railcards in use.

It is implied, but not stated explicitly, that they assume the total revenue from a Railcard is at least as much as they would obtain from the holder(s) without that Railcard. This leaves the net payment for each Railcard as additional income for the train companies and ATOC.

See, for example, "Passengers reap £20m of savings a year after the launch of the Two Together Railcard".

Indeed, BR introduced the Senior, Family and Student Railcards as a commercial decision. Their purpose was to attract extra customers - Over 60s because as they retired they would have more time to travel, Students because if you 'catch ' em young' they may develope the habit of train travel, and Families because you could easily 'capture' four passengers. I have no reason to believe the commercial attractiveness has diminished.

Let's face it ATOC have even introduced their 'own' Railcard - Two Together! Given, too, that all Railcards are advertised extensively, unlike Rover Tickets, the TOCs must see railcards as a benefit to their business. Isn't the Senior Railčard protected by the legislation that privatised the railways anyway?

 

[transportphoto]

Just to confirm though are currently no plans whatsoever ever to get rid of the SNR or DIS Railcards

Is this a question or a statement of fact? If the latter, can you support with documentary evidence that no such plans exist?

TP

 

[RJ]

Conversely, the Rail Operators are carrying a large number of long distance passengers every day, often in first class, who are using a Senior Railcard to reduce the cost of their travel for work. The majority of these journeys will begin well before 9:30am.
There's significant potential ticket revenue to be made by restricting the use of the Senior Railcard by those in paid emloyment who could probably afford to pay the full fare and may be travelling at their employer's or business' expense.

I doubt the TOCs will be unhappy at this initiative,

but many unhappy passengers, I suspect!

Similarly there'll be plenty of recent graduates on a good salary using a 16-25 railcard for their commute, albeit for a shorter distance. On the rare occasions I work in the ticket office on a Monday morning, I've done a lot of transactions where 5 days worth of ADTs or SDRs are purchased at once with a railcard, as it's cheaper than buying a season ticket. Yet those with a local-ish commute to college don't get a discount, save for the few areas where there is a season discount scheme in place.

 

[neilmc]

Similarly there'll be plenty of recent graduates on a good salary using a 16-25 railcard for their commute, albeit for a shorter distance. On the rare occasions I work in the ticket office on a Monday morning, I've done a lot of transactions where 5 days worth of ADTs or SDRs are purchased at once with a railcard, as it's cheaper than buying a season ticket. Yet those with a local-ish commute to college don't get a discount, save for the few areas where there is a season discount scheme in place.

Before I retired there was a "high-flyer" graduate in my office who was classed as a senior(ish) manager at age 25 and often travelled from Manchester to London for business on the peak trains using her Young Persons' Railcard and paying off-peak rates, thanks to Virgin's concession. I've never quite understood why Virgin are happy for their peak trains to be cluttered with oldies, young managers, students, soldiers and families all paying off-peak fares, the only reason I can think of is that business people now just refuse to pay the ridiculous costs of Anytime travel and Virgin were left with lots of empty seats on formerly busy trains.