ENCTS on X2 Preston to Liverpool

[gray1404]

I wish Stagecoach would make up their mind if I need to place my pass on the machine on tge X2 or not. If boarding between Preston and Southport practice is to place card on reader and state destination. However between Southport and Liverpool practice is to show as a flash pass and driver records manually. They don't seem to like it when people place the card on the machine.

Likewise in other direction Liverpool to Southport show pass. Southport to Preston place on machine and state destination.

However recently some drivers are not liking it when you show your pass and insisting you place it on the machine. Anyone know the reason behind this? I wish they would make it their minds.

 

[Leedsbusman]

I wish Stagecoach would make up their mind if I need to place my pass on the machine on tge X2 or not. If boarding between Preston and Southport practice is to place card on reader and state destination. However between Southport and Liverpool practice is to show as a flash pass and driver records manually. They don't seem to like it when people place the card on the machine.

Likewise in other direction Liverpool to Southport show pass. Southport to Preston place on machine and state destination.

However recently some drivers are not liking it when you show your pass and insisting you place it on the machine. Anyone know the reason behind this? I wish they would make it their minds.

Perhaps ask Stagecoach to be sure but the Lancashire scheme uses shadow fares so requires the destination stage recording - I don’t think the Merseyside one does.

 

[Roger1973]

Would agree with the 'perhaps ask stagecoach' - sounds as though drivers have not been given clear instructions, and if there is something unusual here, that passengers have not been given information.

Only other thing that comes to mind as a possible - there are some services which are outside the scope of ENCTS, but a council offers free / discounted travel only to holders of local ENCTS cards (I think one or two tramways work on that basis) so there would need to be either an electronic or visual check that the pass being presented is one issued by holders of X council passes.

 

[Aaron Ashton]

Lancashire County Council requires destination and ticket, most other ENCTS places don't require this. I often ask why we can't just get rid of paper tickets for ENCTS and this is the reason always given to us.

 

[JKP]

Lancashire County Council requires destination and ticket, most other ENCTS places don't require this. I often ask why we can't just get rid of paper tickets for ENCTS and this is the reason always given to us.

In Scotland, many operators do not issue paper tickets for SNCTS but other than in Edinburgh and Midlothian where there is a flat fare, all concessionary fare reimbursement is paid on destination of the holder.

 

[GusB]

In Scotland, many operators do not issue paper tickets for SNCTS but other than in Edinburgh and Midlothian where there is a flat fare, all concessionary fare reimbursement is paid on destination of the holder.

There's no such thing as SNCTS!

 

[Statto]

I used my Merseytravel issued ENCTS pass on the X2 from Preston last week & driver asked for my destination & i was then issued with a zero fare ticket. i think it's ridiculous protocol when the pass has been recorded by the ticket machine, & a waste of paper.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I wish Stagecoach would make up their mind if I need to place my pass on the machine on tge X2 or not. If boarding between Preston and Southport practice is to place card on reader and state destination. However between Southport and Liverpool practice is to show as a flash pass and driver records manually. They don't seem to like it when people place the card on the machine.

Likewise in other direction Liverpool to Southport show pass. Southport to Preston place on machine and state destination.

However recently some drivers are not liking it when you show your pass and insisting you place it on the machine. Anyone know the reason behind this? I wish they would make it their minds.

Are services driven throughout by the same driver, or is there a change at Southport? If there's a change I can imagine Southport - Liverpool (and v.v.) being worked by drivers familiar with the rules required in Merseyside, and Southport - Preston (and v.v.) by Lancashire-familiar drivers.

 

[gray1404]

It's worked by one driver throughout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used my Merseytravel issued ENCTS pass on the X2 from Preston last week & driver asked for my destination & i was then issued with a zero fare ticket. i think it's ridiculous protocol when the pass has been recorded by the ticket machine, & a waste of paper.

I think the reason some Councils insist/insisted on a ticket being issued for ENCTS was to stop drivers at less reputable bus companies just sitting there tapping the pass button to gain income on a fraudulent basis. Having to scan the card avoids this, though, so it's odd to see anyone still doing it.

 

[ChrisC]

I think the reason some Councils insist/insisted on a ticket being issued for ENCTS was to stop drivers at less reputable bus companies just sitting there tapping the pass button to gain income on a fraudulent basis. Having to scan the card avoids this, though, so it's odd to see anyone still doing it.

On my local bus route, operated by Stagecoach East Midlands, ENCTS passes have to be scanned and then a zero fare ticket is issued. The destination does not have to be given. This is certainly the practise on all routes operated from the Mansfield depot. This becomes very confusing around Chesterfield where Stagecoach (Yorkshire) don’t issue tickets on their routes but if your board a Mansfield bus the driver expects you to take a ticket. Other bus operators in Nottinghamshire, including Trent Barton do not issue tickets, so I’ve no idea why Stagecoach continue with this. What a waste of paper and a source of litter both on the bus and around bus stops.

Sorry. I’ve wandered a bit off the title of the thread here.

 

[DMorgan124]

Lancashire County Council are one of only a very few remaining authorities (I think including the former Cumbria region) that still have a 'shadow fare' concessionary scheme. In other words, concessionary reimbursement is based on a percentage of the adult single fare (with a basket of fares calculation thrown in for day tickets) for the specific journey. The rules of the scheme are such that operators taking part in the shadow fare reimbursement have to ask for a destination and also have to issue a ticket as a receipt. This is in contrast to Merseyside, where different reimbursement rules apply and a simple record of the pass use is required. Destinations are irrelevant for reimbursement or scheme rules. Stagecoach did try to apply the ticket issue rules throughout the X2 many years back, but Merseyside customers just weren't having it and so it was decided to use the Lancashire setup on the Southport - Preston section and Merseyside setup on the Southport - Liverpool section.
Oh and before anyone asks the relevance of shadow fares these days since the introduction of the £2 fare cap - reimbursement is based broadly on those fares applying before the fare caps were in place (the 'real' fares) and individual negotiations with operators on inflation uplifts etc. since then.

 

[Stephen1001]

I think the reason some Councils insist/insisted on a ticket being issued for ENCTS was to stop drivers at less reputable bus companies just sitting there tapping the pass button to gain income on a fraudulent basis. Having to scan the card avoids this, though, so it's odd to see anyone still doing it.

This isn't just a theoretical issue either, as the directors of Express Motors were convicted of doing almost exactly that.

 

[Joshua_Harman]

My Employer (Stagecoach) does not mandate how we drivers accept passes. Some people will show it and expect a ticket, while some will show it and walk into the bus and some will show it and then scan it. It doesn’t bother me what people do on my bus and I can’t see why some drivers would request a specific way. The only time I’ll get people to show it is if it’s an authority that allows free travel before 9:30 on certain passes and I need to see the signing authority on the card. Otherwise, I’m easy as long as they don’t try to insert it like a train ticket into the ticket printer!