EMT York services

[TomJ93]

I'm struggling to find these, what are the direct trains from St Pancras to York and return timings for a winter Saturday?

Thanks.

 

[ainsworth74]

They are:

Saturday:
06:37 STP -> YRK 10:16
17:49 YRK -> STP 21:06

Sunday:
Can't find a northbound departure
17:26 YRK -> STP 21:15

Found these by going to an on-line journey planner specifying STP to YRK via Sheffield direct train only in case you want to look yourself.

 

[EM2]

06:37 out from STP and 17:49 return from YRK

 

[WillPS]

http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk.../Times/PDFTimetables/Winter2010/London-10.pdf

Should help.

 

[TomJ93]

Thanks guys!

All burning the midnight oil I presume?

The northbound is incredibly early!

 

[142094]

The set normally sits in either platform 6 or 7 all day until the evening return working. Occasionally I've seen it shifted to Holgate sidings. Nice day out for the staff it seems!

Services in the summer continue on to Scarborough.

 

[blackfive460]

Nice day out for the staff it seems!

Certainly on the Scarborough workings, one set of men work outward and another work back.
No idea where they work from or to. I only know having travelled from Scarborough to York one Saturday last summer with the EMT driver who had brought the set out.
Not sure if the same arrangement applies to the York workings but, looking at the timings I'd expect it to be so.

 

[dzug2]

The northbound Sunday service starts in Leicester before the first St Pancras train arrives.

 

[Welshman]

The set normally sits in either platform 6 or 7 all day until the evening return working. Occasionally I've seen it shifted to Holgate sidings. Nice day out for the staff it seems!

Services in the summer continue on to Scarborough.

.


Does anyone know why EMT continue to run that twice-a-week service? It can hardly be good utilisation of staff or stock to be laid-over in York for such a long time. Neither can I understand it being run for maintenance of route knowledge as Doncaster-York-Scarborough is hardly a potential diversionary route off their main core services!

Is it just the prestige of getting a presence in York? [In the spirit of George Hudson - "Make all t'railways come to York"]! Or an ORCATS raid?

 

[Bellwater]

Midland Mainline used to run it, not sure if it ran before that. same with the Leeds-Pancras services and at one point Barnsley-Pancras.

 

[YorkshireBear]

.


Does anyone know why EMT continue to run that twice-a-week service? It can hardly be good utilisation of staff or stock to be laid-over in York for such a long time. Neither can I understand it being run for maintenance of route knowledge as Doncaster-York-Scarborough is hardly a potential diversionary route off their main core services!

Is it just the prestige of getting a presence in York? [In the spirit of George Hudson - "Make all t'railways come to York"]! Or an ORCATS raid?

As far as i am aware it is to go give visitors from the east midlands to york a train to go on a day out. Especially so with the scarbrough train, it is a direct train for a day out to scarbough from leicster derby sheffield (sheffields own northern direct service takes alot longer)

The northbound Sunday service starts in Leicester before the first St Pancras train arrives.

used to be the case it is not anymore. now starts back from STP

 

[ChrisCooper]

IIRC MML first introduced the York service on summer saturdays using Turbostars, oviously aimed at the leisure market and providing a direct service from the Midlands to the ECML. I think it was later that it got extended to Scarborough in the summer, again for the Midlands leisure market, and the Sunday York service was introduced with a HST (the first time the MML sets got regular 125mph running since they were dedicated to the route before privatisation). The Midlands orientated market is shown by the fact that the Sunday service starts from Leicester (having run ECS from Derby) and that both the saturday and sunday service were all stations south of Leicester. The ECML would be far quicker from London.

Oviously when the Turbostars were replaced by Meridiens, the Saturday service switched over, and later the Sunday run also went over to Meridiens.

I've done both the Saturday and Sunday service up to York (with a HST and Turbostar), and the Saturday was ideal for a day out, getting in about 10 and leaving about 5, and it was well used (when I did it it was a pair of 2 car Turbostars and comfortably loaded, and that was a winter York only). The Sunday was less good, since it's 10:00 departure from Leicester meant by the time it got to York most of the day was gone. Basically had time for a little bit of photography, a walk over to the NRM to find it was having a "Thomas Day" and therefore packed with kids and charging for entry, a walk into the city and then back for the return run. I presume that went to Holgate as it arrived from the South and was the same set. The Turbostars on the Saturday sat in the South East bay.

 

[dzug2]

used to be the case it is not anymore. now starts back from STP

Current timetable has it starting at Leicester at 1010

 

[yorkie]

.Does anyone know why EMT continue to run that twice-a-week service?

Do they have any choice? I'd be surprised if they do.

.
It can hardly be good utilisation of staff or stock to be laid-over in York for such a long time. Neither can I understand it being run for maintenance of route knowledge as Doncaster-York-Scarborough is hardly a potential diversionary route off their main core services!

Agreed, so the company is hardly going to want to do it, which means that...

.
Or an ORCATS raid?

...would not make sense, if you were ORCATS raiding, you would return immediately, not hang around for hours! I think the term "ORCATS raid" is often used inappropriately! What is an ORCATS raid? It's a subjective term anyway. And who doesn't ORCATS raid? Every TOC wants to maximise their revenue under ORCATS, to the maximum extent that the DfT's timetable specification will allow (although in I get the impression that in most cases the TOCs these days have no say in the timetable whatsoever).

.
Is it just the prestige of getting a presence in York? [In the spirit of George Hudson - "Make all t'railways come to York"]

Does any TOC do anything for prestige these days?

I think the chances of EMT deciding to run this train in the way they do are about as unlikely as pigs flying. It's clearly got to be a requirement of the franchise, surely? I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if they do it by choice.

How many bikes can you get on these Meridians? An extra train comes in handy for a cycle ride from Scarborough.

 

[brompton rail]

Only two bikes on a Meridian, Yorkie. Indeed only 2 on an HST (or at least EMT's HSTs). So not much good for a family day out.

To answer the comments about route knowledge and ORCATS.

EMT run a daily train (HST) from Leeds via Doncaster to Sheffield and St Pancras so that would reward them with a greater share of revenue.Anyway tickets from York to London are valid via EMT routes so would bring EMT a share of the revenue anyway.

At one time the Sunday afternoon departure from York was an HST off Neville Hill following maintenance but that ended some time ago.

 

[12CSVT]

It has always puzzled me why the Sunday service to York starts at Leicester and not St Pancras (bearing in mind the first southbound on a Sunday departs Leicester around 07:00).

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

What I would like to know, who sets the price.

I'm travelling from Chesterfield to York on Sat 05 March, I have booked 'Advance' tickets with CrossCountry @ £7.50 each way std, an 'Advance' with EMT on the 08:47 is £20.00 std (£19.00 1st)

 

[yorkie]

What I would like to know, who sets the price.

I'm travelling from Chesterfield to York on Sat 05 March, I have booked 'Advance' tickets with CrossCountry @ £7.50 each way std, an 'Advance' with EMT on the 08:47 is £20.00 std (£19.00 1st)

XC set the XC Only / XC & Connections fares and EMT set the EMT Only / EMT & Connections. XC set the Any Permitted fare.

£15 return is not a price I would pay for an Advance if I was returning the same day, let alone £40!

Dronfield - York is £17.20 Off Peak Day Return or £19.90 Anytime Return
Chesterfield - Dronfield is £3.20 Anytime Day Return, or if you don't want to change trains,
Chesterfield - Sheffield is £4.30 Off Peak Day Return or £5.50 Anytime Day Return.

Although it's worth considering a Shireoaks to York for a quid less (valid from Sheffield to York) plus a Chesterfield to Sheffield which is £20.50, so only £5.50 more than the cheapest advances on XC, which gives you complete flexibility on a Saturday. You can even go via Huddersfield or Harrogate!

 

[ChrisCooper]

It has always puzzled me why the Sunday service to York starts at Leicester and not St Pancras (bearing in mind the first southbound on a Sunday departs Leicester around 07:00).

Likely no call for anything else. How many passengers are going to want to travel north from London to Wellingborough, Kettering or Market Harborough, or from the latter 3 to Leicester or north, on a Sunday morning? The York is the first northbound service off Leicester on a Sunday. There are earlier services to London on Sunday morning as there are more passengers going that way. The first Northbound train from St Pancras does not leave until 9 on a Sunday.

Talking about the Sunday York service, although I only did it all the way once, I have done it to and from Sheffield a few times (as it's arrival and departure time were more suitable for a day trip). On one run it was already quite late by Loughborough (the HST was timetabled 10mins from Leicester, and could usually manage it), and getting later, and I was not surprised when it pulled in and the front powercar was silent. Went up in the first class behind the powercar, very different just with the clunking and creaking of the coupling, and very slow. I think we were doing about 25 by the time we reached Bradway Tunnel (I was timing it and I've still got the paper with ever increasing 1/4 times on it), and were a good half an hour late. Hate to think how bad it was by the time it got to York, and how much ECML traffic it held up past Doncaster. These days they would probably have pulled it, although they must have been short to have not swapped sets at Derby. I imagine they swapped either the set or the powercar, or fixed it, at Neville Hill during the layover.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Current timetable has it starting at Leicester at 1010

ive just read it though im confused sorry

page 62 of the january timetable change 2011 that is linked futher up the thread shows the saturday service to york starting at 06 37 from london st p?

am i confused are we talking about sundays?

 

[323235]

Certainly on the Scarborough workings, one set of men work outward and another work back.
No idea where they work from or to. I only know having travelled from Scarborough to York one Saturday last summer with the EMT driver who had brought the set out.
Not sure if the same arrangement applies to the York workings but, looking at the timings I'd expect it to be so.

When I did the Scarborough last Summer it was all the same crew on both the outward and return. The Driver wandered round the shops and down on the seafront and brough back some Fish and Chips.

 

[dzug2]

ive just read it though im confused sorry

page 62 of the january timetable change 2011 that is linked futher up the thread shows the saturday service to york starting at 06 37 from london st p?

am i confused are we talking about sundays?

Yes - Sundays. Or I was anyway

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes - Sundays. Or I was anyway

Explains it then