EMT: Master Cutler Issues

[yorkie]

Inconveniencing up to 50 First Class passengers who will be on Open Fares, paying for restaurant food doesn't sound anything like a company capable of operating sensibly.

Exactly.

MML was one of the real success stories of privatisation so it really seems odd that the DaFT replaced them with this lot, but the DaFT doesn't care about service quality. I don't agree with everything MML did, but many things that went wrong were not their fault (including the SRA telling them to order Meridians for a new Nottingham service that ended up being given to Northern about 3 years later and not running through to London).

Doesn't the 0727 from Sheffield starts from Leeds at 0614, meaning there are no operational difficulties in running and HST on the service. Madness.

It used to, but not any more. Agreed, it is madness.

50x SHF-STP FORs are £2,190 per day. But the goodwill they'd have lost with lots of those passengers being put off travelling with them again will be even more costly.

 

[tbtc]

EMT would really be better off getting rid of all the 158s as Good as they are it makes there fleet ast Nottingham Depot a bit more complicated as if they got 156s and 153s with the extra 153s from Nat Ex and possible some from LM when LM Order and Recive Centre Cars for there 172s EMT would have a more flexible and Standard Fleet.

I've tried reading this paragraph three times and still can't understand it...

As for why the Master Cutler is so busy, whilst there are two other trains just as fast from Sheffield in the morning is that passengers are still in the habit of taking the Master Cutler from the days it was still "fast" (i.e. avoiding Derby) - since it's only been a month since the timetable change (especially with Christmas etc) maybe the first class passengers will realise that the Master Cutler offers no real time advantage any more, and so demand will instead be split amongst the other "rush hour" services from Sheffield.

 

[222001]

Inconveniencing up to 50 First Class passengers who will be on Open Fares, paying for restaurant food doesn't sound anything like a company capable of operating sensibly. Doesn't the 0727 from Sheffield starts from Leeds at 0614, meaning there are no operational difficulties in running and HST on the service. Madness.

Used to start from Leeds but now starts at Sheffield. They should really bring back the direct from Chesterfield to London no stops (that could be a really fast if missing Derby? Perhaps under two hours?). Even the HST could struggle with the loadings in first class with the extra passengers from Derby and Leicester.

 

[caughtonatrain]

50x SHF-STP FORs are £2,190 per day. But the goodwill they'd have lost with lots of those passengers being put off travelling with them again will be even more costly.

I make it £12,000 per day. SHF-STP FOR route Chesterfield = £240

 

[John_158]

Penny pinching that is what it is plus EMT seem to have this idea that the Meridian is more superior than a HST and they Look at the Meridian being a replacement for HSTs as well but yet the HST is still Strong in Service to day some what 25+ years later and probably fit for another 25 years as I don't think Voyagers, Medridians etc will last that long.

Also as I have said previously EMT seem to be doing things to put people off travelling by train rather than encouraging people to travel by train.

Passenger Numbers will probably drop on the Master Cutler Service once people start getting fed up of paying to stand this is one of the thing I have noticed over the last few months on the Liverpool-Norwich Route so it wouldn’t surprise me to see the same thing happen with the Master Cutler Service along with a few other of EMTs Long Distance Services.

 

[222001]

Penny pinching that is what it is plus EMT seem to have this idea that the Meridian is more superior than a HST and they Look at the Meridian being a replacement for HSTs as well but yet the HST is still Strong in Service to day some what 25+ years later and probably fit for another 25 years as I don't think Voyagers, Medridians etc will last that long.

Very true. Even though I do find Meridians offer better travelling experience due to: Better ride quality (less bouncy), plug sockets and better sound proofing also EMT HSTs just seem a bit 80s inside! I'm looking foreward to the refurbishment.

 

[D841]

Doesn't the 0727 from Sheffield starts from Leeds at 0614, meaning there are no operational difficulties in running and HST on the service. Madness.

No. There's no 06.14 from Leeds. There is an 06.34 which presumably forms the 07.44 ex-Sheffield. All the Leeds starters are HSTs anyway, as that's where they're maintained. Leeds doesn't see Meridians.

 

[Max]

No. There's no 06.14 from Leeds. There is an 06.34 which presumably forms the 07.44 ex-Sheffield. All the Leeds starters are HSTs anyway, as that's where they're maintained. Leeds doesn't see Meridians.

Actually, the 0634 from Leeds arrives into Sheffield at 0725, just before the Cutler leaves. It then departs again at 0732 to London via Nottingham. So, if the HST left Leeds a few minutes earlier (and the pathing worked), it could easily form the Cutler.

 

[devon_metro]

1B00 0614 Leeds - St Pancras used to be the Cutler. Obviously they've changed it so its a DMU.

 

[John_158]

A few Questions about The Master Cutler :-

A-Do they have Sardeens on the Menu

B-Does the unit that is on the Service on the day carry a head board to say its the Master Cutler.

 

[clagmonster]

Sorry, can't help you on the sardines question, but I can say that they don't carry a headboard, and haven't done for a very long time.

 

[222001]

Anyone know what the loadings are like in standard class?

 

[1D53]

A few Questions about The Master Cutler :-

A-Do they have Sardeens on the Menu

B-Does the unit that is on the Service on the day carry a head board to say its the Master Cutler.

No.

No.

 

[David Pemberton]

A limited amount of rolling stock, a limited number of paths on the track; running a TOC is about rationing between customers/destinations.

At the southern end of the Midland mainline the new EMT timetable seems to have made things better. After a week of teething troubles (staff rosters to get both sets open?) running 2x5-car Meridians has made my daily commute (NOT-STP, 0648-0844) much less crowded. Used to fill at Kettering, now there are still a few seats when it departs Luton.

I agree with everyone who has said it seems pretty mad to be running Meridians to Sheffield and HSTs to Nottingham. Although it's better for me as HSTs are IMHO much quieter/nicer for passengers.

First Class loadings may be on their way down. I was talking with a director of thetrainline.com on Wednesday and he said that they are seeing a shift from First to Second as a result of the recession. TOCs may have to counter with deeper advance purchase discounts to balance the loadings.

It's already faster to sit on a Pacer to Donny and change to a NXEC service (is Sheffield the only city in the UK with a faster and more frequent service to the capital by doing this?)[/size]

No, I now return home on the 1630 KGX, changing at Grantham, and it beats the direct 1630 from STP>NOT by 8 minutes, often a little more (KGX is closer to my office, the train has free WiFi, and the Mk4 coaches are far better than HSTs/Meridians, I usually get a whole table to myself in the Quiet Coach too).

The 1850 from KGX with the same change gets you to Nottingham in 1hr 47mins, which is better than most of the direct services. As our local paper said, "It's odd that sometimes the fastest way to Nottingham, Queen of the Midlands, can be via a small market town in Lincolnshire."

 

[ashworth]

I only travel from Nottingham to London half a dozen times or so times a year, mainly off peak, for leisure purposes. However, I am finding that I am making more and more of these journeys to Kings Cross changing at Grantham.

I usually get AP tickets and find that NatEx often release their AP tickets weeks before EMT especially if you are travelling at a weekend. Also I'm finding that the cost of EMT AP tickets are rising with the very cheap ones only being available for a very few trains in the middle of the day. It is still possible to get single tickets via Grantham for about £12 even at quite popular times.

Even with pay on the day tickets an Off peak return to London from Nottingham is only £46.50 via Grantham compared to £54 to St Pancras.
Most of the journeys available with a change at Grantham are under 2 hours.

 

[voyagerdude220]

TOCs may have to counter with deeper advance purchase discounts to balance the loadings.

Which makes it even more of a shame, that Virgin West Coast has steeply increased the price of Advance First singles on the London/Birmingham to Preston/Scotland route substantially, with the majority of FC singles between Preston and London on off peak services costing up to three times as much, compared to this time last year!

I've also noticed a huge leap in the coast of travelling north of Preston too, which used to offer very good value fares on Virgin Trains, but even the FCS fare range (the cheapest FC singles) are far more expensive compared to those offered this time last year.

 

[222001]

I think I have thought why EMT justified changing the Master Cutler to a Meridian.
It was said earlier that EMT did not want a non-standard HST running around as it requires more effort to get it to a cetain place and make sure it's in service etc. They tried using a normal HST but this did not work as there were some passengers standing. Now as far as I know a 7 car has more first class seating than a standard HST, maybe they thought that these extra seats compared to a standard HST would solve the problem, but it didn't.
People are saying they want a HST on this service but it MUST be the version with an extra first class coach or the problem will be worse that it was with the Meridian!

Also as a note I think coach J on 7 car Meridians is locked off to reservations along with coach D (standard) which can't help things.

 

[P156KWJ]

EMT do the best with what they have. They have a good MD who seems to be on the ball....

Disagree totaly with that as if he was then the maintiance would be far better namley at Nottingham Depot.

Tim Shoveller / David Horne don't manage that, Eastcroft (it's not Nottingham) depot is managed (and possibly owned) by Maintrain, so 222001 is right. I had a letter from Tim shoveller with many thanks for my letter to him, saying it was refeshing to know someone with an understanding of his company's current situation. Maybe if you were nice and didn't moan for once you'd get something like that. That letter made my day and you never stop grumbling - it doesn't make sense.

And how the hell is it EMT's fault that scummy passengers make the trains dirty?

 

[Max]

This thread has now been tidied.

 

[John_158]

To me personaly it seems like everything Stagecoah Get There hands on they seem to reduce everything.

 

[devon_metro]

To me personaly it seems like everything Stagecoah Get There hands on they seem to reduce everything.

Why are there two trains per hour to Weymouth?
New services to Lincoln etc etc

 

[richa2002]

To me personaly it seems like everything Stagecoah Get There hands on they seem to reduce everything.

Certainly not the fares.

 

[John_158]

I know about the fares it seems as thogh you pay more for less ie..the fares go up the train goes down.

The Master Cutler Service Seems to have gone tdown the same road as the Liveprool-Norwich route Sie..Smaller Trains Higher Fares people paying to stand.

 

[90019]

Can we please just go one thread about EMT without you bringing up the Liverpool-Norwich route?

We know you don't like it, please, stop complaining about it, it's getting really annoying.

 

[Jim]

Strange you say that, as I was on one of those strange Alphaline sprinters from Nottingham-Sheffield yesterday, and I was remarking how clean the seat covers and carpets were. I was reading in the passenger magazine 'Journeys' that they've bought a new machine to deal with it, and it seems to be doing the job pretty well.

I've no idea why they don't strengthen the same units Monday-Friday, or why they don't just split the one (or two?) surplus trains to create a couple of 3-car trains.

How many trains are required to cover the Norwich-Liverpool route on a standard timetabled Monday-Friday?

Bliney, the Wessex 158's had carpets harder than rocks! And were blacker than coal!

 

[John_158]

Can we please just go one thread about EMT without you bringing up the Liverpool-Norwich route?

We know you don't like it, please, stop complaining about it, it's getting really annoying.

Not complaning at all jsut stating fact which in actuall fact has happened across the whole Rail Network.

Livepool-Norwich route i was using as a comparison to the Master Cutler !

 

[90019]

Bliney, the Wessex 158's had carpets harder than rocks! And were blacker than coal!

Maybe they were made of coal, to save on the costs of running a separate coal train!

 

[222001]

The Master Cutler was a HST today - not the one with an extra first class coach though.
It was out covering for the 7 car Meridian (I think there is a 222003/222023 hybrid and thats why so many Meridian services are being covered).

 

[John_158]

The Master Cutler was a HST today - not the one with an extra first class coach though.
It was out covering for the 7 car Meridian (I think there is a 222003/222023 hybrid and thats why so many Meridian services are being covered).

Just wait untill tomorrow will be a SWT 158 as it is two car tuesday tomorrow and ever tuesday especially on the --------- ------- route.

 

[222001]

especially on the --------- ------- route.

--------- ------- Forbidden words.

They may as well send the replacement HST out on the Master Cutler diagrams everyday. It is their busiest service.