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EMT... Is it really good?
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...unless they want passengers on said trains.
ChrisCooper
Established Member
They wouldn't want to use 75mph units all the way from St Pancras, for a start it would cause big pathing problems south of Bedford, and seriously increased journey time. Also, I'm sure the Skeg train will run in an existing Nottingham path. I can't see them hiring in 170s for the service, and refreshing drivers on them, and even 158s wouldn't be good on the MML, plus with any sence they will be putting extra capacity on Liverpool to Norwich aswell summer saturdays, so using most 158s. If this does happen, HSTs do seem the best option.
As for the loco ban, I thought that had been lifted now, and locos had been allowed to run. Also, a HST is only 70t, so a lot lighter than most locos (often well over 100t), and have low unsprung weight. It's about time NR delt with the track aswell since if it's not in a state to carry locos it must be getting towards a state where it can't carry units either, not with a comfortable and safe ride.
I can't see them upgrading the line just for this though, since it's only going to be on train a day on saturdays over the summer, probably 2 or 3 months at most.
As for the loco ban, I thought that had been lifted now, and locos had been allowed to run. Also, a HST is only 70t, so a lot lighter than most locos (often well over 100t), and have low unsprung weight. It's about time NR delt with the track aswell since if it's not in a state to carry locos it must be getting towards a state where it can't carry units either, not with a comfortable and safe ride.
I can't see them upgrading the line just for this though, since it's only going to be on train a day on saturdays over the summer, probably 2 or 3 months at most.
Ascot
Established Member
Loco bans still going, as of when i posted my post before it's all up to date accurate. Not sure on the permissions being granted though.
Ascot
Established Member
57s can, 73s can, anything else restricted with special authority.
Looking at the SA not sure if it's in Rules of the Route as well...
47s can and 20s...
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Didn't the 20s have to be specially allowed to traverse Boston - Skegness? I was under the impression they did.
Mintona
Established Member
Most likely for a Skegness train is a good connection to a 156 / 153s at Nottingham I'd have thought.
ChrisCooper
Established Member
Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if the reason they are proposing a through service is that there arn't enough units to cover for the additional demand on summer saturdays to Skegness. Central in the past have used 4, 5 or 6 car units, but the way EMT has basically got the leftovers as far as the Central fleet goes they might not have enough to manage this. On the other hand, there should be a fair number of spair HSTs and Meridiens on a Saturday that cover the peak hour services in the week, so one of these could cover the run. It sounds like it will be very much like 'one's London to Yarmouth, which uses a 90 and Mk3 set that would be spair on a Saturday but is needed to cover peak workings in the week, wheras they again wouldn't have the units to provide the capacity.
I presume the bans are based on axle weights, but I can't see why this would affect HSTs which have quite a low axle weight, about 18t, pretty much the same as a 20. The lightest 57s (the 3s and 6s) have axle weights of 19.5t though, with the worst being the 67s at 22.5t. Also, HSTs have low unsprung weight due to having bogie mounted traction motors rarther than axle hung like on most locos.
I presume the bans are based on axle weights, but I can't see why this would affect HSTs which have quite a low axle weight, about 18t, pretty much the same as a 20. The lightest 57s (the 3s and 6s) have axle weights of 19.5t though, with the worst being the 67s at 22.5t. Also, HSTs have low unsprung weight due to having bogie mounted traction motors rarther than axle hung like on most locos.
Ascot
Established Member
As said in the post you quoted, need Authorisation. There's 4 types of Clearance:
Yes
No
Restricted
Not Tested
Nothing is No, everything apart from 57s and 73s is restricted. There's a difference. 67s are Not Tested. And the restriction is Special Authorisation needed.
Before you reply back saying but there was a tour... yes because it probably got Special Authorisation not in the WTT
Ah, Leicester-York
back in 2002 the 0620 Saturdays Only St.Pancras-York [Scarborough] was operated by a Turbostar! :\
As indeed, everything that wasn't an HST, was!
P156KWJ
Established Member
God I hate East Midlands trains!!! Firstly they announce they are shortening HSTs by removing the buffets and replacing them with a flaming trolley, then they say that the centre cars of 3 car 158s are going to northern, then they acquire loads of tatty FGW and Northern 153s, then they plan to reduce the service on cOnnect services, then they make a complete monkey's breakfast out of the Liverpool - Norwich route, then they remove reservations, then they REMOVE THE FULL ENGLISH FROM THE BREAKFAST MENU AND GET RID OF FREE TEA AND COFFEE!!! Stagecoach is pathetic. They are all sitting there with their thumbs up their arses not listening to the passengers. not pleased really 
Aureol
Established Member
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I could see it going downhill from day one.
Stagecoach have an appauling bus service around here, now they're destroying our trains!
Madness
Stagecoach have an appauling bus service around here, now they're destroying our trains!
Madness
T
Tom
Guest
One thing - you'll find it's the DfT enacting most of those unit changes...
Free tea and coffee was planned to be removed under MML too, anyway.
Free tea and coffee was planned to be removed under MML too, anyway.
I agree here, EMT seem to be screwing with what works. "Why fix what doesn't need fixing"... Midland Mainline was fine so why is there need to change? HST's on the Nottingham slows is actually quite funny. Honestly though, seeing Nottingham trains are mostly all shacks, Meridians are far better for the job as they are quicker off the mark. So what does this mean for the current TT to Nottingham? Slower journey times? Less trains?
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T
Tom
Guest
Most of the current 158 fleet shuffles that are going around are still as a direct result of the First Great Western franchise shuffles - it's all being determined by the ROSCOs.
ChrisCooper
Established Member
The HSTs will not be going onto the Nottingham Slows, they will be on the Nottingham Fast which runs the same stopping pattern as far as Leicester (mostly none stop, with some making one intermediate stop), then they alternate between Nottingham and Loughborough, Nottingham. Since the service is already timed for HSTs, there will be no increase to journey time, and once the buffets are lost from the HSTs this will allow improvements.
I presume the reason for the changeover of the Meridiens from Nottingham to Sheffield will mainly be down to the journey time improvements north of Derby where speed restrictions and gradients will allow the Meridiens to gain a fair amount of time over HSTs (e.g Meridiens will make much better time on the climb from Chesterfield to Bradway Tunnel, where HSTs struggle to keep line speed).
The slow services to Nottingham and Derby will see no change, other than all being formed of 5 car Meridiens instead of the current 4 or 5.
I presume the reason for the changeover of the Meridiens from Nottingham to Sheffield will mainly be down to the journey time improvements north of Derby where speed restrictions and gradients will allow the Meridiens to gain a fair amount of time over HSTs (e.g Meridiens will make much better time on the climb from Chesterfield to Bradway Tunnel, where HSTs struggle to keep line speed).
The slow services to Nottingham and Derby will see no change, other than all being formed of 5 car Meridiens instead of the current 4 or 5.
T
Tom
Guest
As part of terms for the franchise, yes, probably - the other bidders wouldn't have the choice either...
God I hate East Midlands trains!!! Firstly they announce they are shortening HSTs by removing the buffets and replacing them with a flaming trolley, then they say that the centre cars of 3 car 158s are going to northern, then they acquire loads of tatty FGW and Northern 153s, then they plan to reduce the service on cOnnect services, then they make a complete monkey's breakfast out of the Liverpool - Norwich route, then they remove reservations, then they REMOVE THE FULL ENGLISH FROM THE BREAKFAST MENU AND GET RID OF FREE TEA AND COFFEE!!! Stagecoach is pathetic. They are all sitting there with their thumbs up their arses not listening to the passengers. not pleased really
Except for the breakfast, all of that is down to the DfT not willing to spend more money and local councils and regional offices not campaigning. After all, you can't really blame any company for not wanting to run unprofitable trains.
P156KWJ
Established Member
Fares are set to rise on EMT by 8% in the next year too! Like SWT, they have a bad reputation for not so cheap cheap day returns!
T
Tom
Guest
To be fair, nor did MML. CrossCountry are getting the same fare rise too so it's all fair play.
Edit: In fact, did MML even have any CDRs?
Edit: In fact, did MML even have any CDRs?
Then again, so are SET and most other TOC's. MML were never cheap on CDRs and SVRs.
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