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EMT... Is it really good?

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westcoaster

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we were always told not to wake anyone up? cause it is assult apparently, always left it to security. so i can see why he did not bother i might have done the same in his shoes, you got to ride in 1st so i bet it was not as sour as if you had been made to stand.
 
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Gizmogle

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No, happy that we got put in first. But again, it's the principle.
Fair enough if he couldn't touch the people to wake them up, but surely he could have just said something in their ear, tapped the table, or the back of the seat to wake them up?
I can see how that could be a bad situation to be honest, but still, he didn't seem very bothered.
He didn't try to help, or apologise that he couldn't help, or that we couldn't get in our seats. Just carelessly told us to go sit in first. Which we obviously couldn't complain about, cause we got seats in first.
 

westcoaster

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i see where you are coming from but the table tapping or whipering in the ear ( that would freak me out) could be classed as verbal assult. if i were you i would have done some constructive moving of the said person bellongings lol moving bags around/ cups/ mobiles/wallets stuff like that so when they wake up things are in the wrong place and see them looking around like fools lol, wrong i know but funny,

getting back on thread there should be a penalty like a penalty fare that is impossed on someone, sitting in the wrong seat, good on emt for removing it at peak times gives everyone a chance of a seat.
 

Gizmogle

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Yes, I guess so. But the guard just didn't seem bothered. He should have made an effort to help in some way or other at least.

I think the penalty fare thing is a little harsh. Especially if there's a pair of Meridians, and most passengers, obviously not knowing which one their reservation is on, are probably going to sit in the wrong seat on the wrong train.
Guards should encourage people to sit in the right seat when they check tickets and see the reservation. Also move people without reservations from reserved seats.
But again, most guards don't care enough to enforce this kind of rule, and many don't even do ticket checks.
 

ChrisCooper

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cant you be finned 200 pound for removing a reservation, and 50 pound for sitting in a seat that is not yours.

It is, but both would only apply if someone was sitting in a seat that was reserved for someone else and wouldn't move for the person who's seat it was, and they had removed the reservation lable to make it look like the seat wasn't reserved. If the seat isn't occupied though it's perfectly legitimate to sit in it, since the person is probably either on another train or in another seat on that train (although the former is most likely). I always give a reasonable amount of time to make sure someone isn't going to claim the seat before taking it, and would always be more than happy to move for the legitimate occupier of the seat. As for removing lables, as I said I remove the lable from the seat I'm reserved in if I'm not going to use it so people wanting to sit there know that it's no longer reserved, aswell as removing out my own lable at the end of the trip as a souvenir (afterall, it's just going in the bin). Whilst technically against the rules, and technically carrying a £200 fine, could anyone reasonably say that they would enforce it.
Also, as far as moving seats is concerned there is nothing to prevent this. As long as you travel on a train your ticket is valid on (which in the case of AP tickets is the specific train), it doesn't matter where you sit, a reservation is in no way a contract of any kind, afterall the TOCs are by no means required to provide the reserved seat (it's not uncommon for whatever reason to find that there are no reservations on train).
 

Gizmogle

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Isn't it like a 20 minute wait after the station for the passenger to claim their seat, then it's up for grabs?

I don't know if that's an actual rule, but that's what I, and many other people I know do.
 

ChrisCooper

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I don't think there is any rule as such, but that's not a bad policy to take. In general it depends on the circumstances though, if at the back of a train leaving the terminus, it's reasonable to assume that once the train leaves the station, unless there are people in the coach looking for seats, then all reserved seats are available. If at the front of a long train, then it's a different matter since someone might have got on at the last minute and be walking through, and oviously if boarding at an intermediate station, time needs to be given incase the person has gone to the toilet or buffet.
Of cource the other thing is if someone comes along to claim the seat. Is it legitimate after a certain time to say that they have "lost" the reservation. Perhaps the main problem here would be if someone reserved from one station but infact boarded at a station further down the line, by which time someone might have taken their seat.
Another problem with reserved seats is when someone comes along to claim a reservation on a different train to what they are on. I've had that once before, when a group of people tried to move me and a few others from "their" seats. Since the seats had reservations that were not from the station they got on at, I asked to see their tickets before moving, to make sure they wern't trying it on, and when they showed me it turned out they were booked on the previous train, so I told them not only was I not moving, but that they would not be advised to make a fuss to the guard since he would almost certainly side with me, and likely require them to upgrade to a walk on fare.
 

Gizmogle

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They need to give out magnets with seat reservations. Really strong ones.

When the person gets on the train, the magnet in their seat, sucks them all the way down the train into their seat, and doesn't let go until their stop :p

Sorted.

I've been moved a few times from my seat though when people claim that they have a reservation, although I've never actually asked them to prove themselves. But then, as long as they bought a ticket, they deserve the seat more than me.
 

class 313

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Yeah, exactly. It's okay if the seat isn't reserved or the train has enough spare seats. But when the entire coach is half full of people and the other half of their belongings, and you walk down the coach looking for seats, and everyone looks away from you so you don't sit with them, it's annoying! Especially when you have to sit on the floor near the toilet and the door for half an hour cause no one is kind enough to let you sit down.

Ask them to move it? If they didn't reserve both seats, you're allowed to sit there. On their stuff or not.
 

Gizmogle

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Or have what Meridians/Voyagers/Pioneers/Pendos(?) have, electronic seat reservation displays 8-)

Yes, Pendos have them too. But it still doesn't mean that people actually read them at all, or even sit in the seats that they reserved.
 

djw1981

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I was also on a train once where the TM managed to alter then during use, so someone sat down in a seat thatw as unreserved, but 2 stations down the line it changed to appear as reserved, and the TM came down and moved the person, leaving an empty seat!
 

Craig

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Yes, I guess so. But the guard just didn't seem bothered. He should have made an effort to help in some way or other at least.

You should try travelling on the first southbound GNER from Newcastle on a Saturday morning at around 04:30. It's always full of people who've been out for the night and going home. Last time I was on it the guard was going along kicking people awake :lol:
 

me123

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Yes, Pendos have them too. But it still doesn't mean that people actually read them at all, or even sit in the seats that they reserved.

I fond the Voyager ones quite hard to read in that I keep forgetting they're there. And every time I get on one, it seems to be reserved from Motherwell. Luckily, the person usually kicks me out.

Sometimes, seat reservatios are made and never intended to be used. eg First Scotrail AP tickets to GQS-ABD are (unless I'm mistaken) returns only. But the £20 return to Aberdeen is cheaper than the cheapest single, so some people book the return (with the resevration) and don't turn up.
 

87015

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I agree the new electronic Pendo/Voyager ones are a bit rubbish as you don't automatically see them like you do a paper reservation. For me the paper system is a much better option esp as the internal displays have a tendency to collapse.

Never, ever, even heard of anyone being chinged up for sitting in a reserved seat/not sitting in their reserved seat on cheapo tickets, i'd be amazed and certainly if it was me would not be chinging out without a mega riot!
 

Jim

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If someone has a bag on a seat with the carrage full, then I just ask politley, but in a stern voice if I can sit there. You have a legal right to a seat when you buy a ticket, and the passenger should oblige.

If the carriage is full and they don't move their luggage off the seat, then they should pay the full fare for an extra seat, simple as that!

Remember though, NCOC IIRC state you have no gurentee of a seat, just of travel, or something like that...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I agree the new electronic Pendo/Voyager ones are a bit rubbish as you don't automatically see them like you do a paper reservation. For me the paper system is a much better option esp as the internal displays have a tendency to collapse.

Never, ever, even heard of anyone being chinged up for sitting in a reserved seat/not sitting in their reserved seat on cheapo tickets, i'd be amazed and certainly if it was me would not be chinging out without a mega riot!


Thing is, the electronic ones don't show whose sitting there next, I,e BRI-BPW is on there, they don;t turn up so you sit there, and it doesn;t tell you someone else has the seat from BPW-BHM!
 

Gizmogle

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Thing is, the electronic ones don't show whose sitting there next, I,e BRI-BPW is on there, they don;t turn up so you sit there, and it doesn;t tell you someone else has the seat from BPW-BHM!
Yes. Also the problem that they fail alot. "No reservations because the system didn't upload them properly" has been heard many a time.

Also,
"This seat is reserved from Birmingham to London Euston"
takes way too long to come across on the screen and causes everyone in the coach to be held up.
 

class 313

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Yes. Also the problem that they fail alot. "No reservations because the system didn't upload them properly" has been heard many a time.

Well no, I know Meridians have the seat slots for this reason. The system could be what the staff use to upload the information onto tickety things or uploading it to the Train Computer.
 

Techniquest

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On 390s it's only 'Available' or 'Reserved' though ain't it?

It's the scrolling ones on Voyagers that can be a pain when you're in a hurry.
 

Guinness

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On 390s it's only 'Available' or 'Reserved' though ain't it?

It's the scrolling ones on Voyagers that can be a pain when you're in a hurry.

Pendos have "Available until Stoke-on-Trent" or something similar.
 

Gizmogle

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I can't remember on the Pendos. I think they put in whatever they feel like. I've never seen it as just "Available" or "Reserved" though. They always tend to be something nice and long whenever I see them.
 
T

Tom

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I've seen BROCKENHURST - READING, OXFORD - YORK before showing on a Voyager...
 

me123

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On 390s it's only 'Available' or 'Reserved' though ain't it?

It's the scrolling ones on Voyagers that can be a pain when you're in a hurry.

Unless I always get unusaly Voyagers, the ones I get say "Available until Edinburgh Waverley" until said station when it changes to "Edinburgh Waverley to Wakefield Westgate".

(The above is an example only, station names change where appropriate)

It's a very good system, but as I and others have said before, it's really hard to read during the rush for a seat.
 

ChrisCooper

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Just noticed 2 interesting things on the EMT wikipedia page.
Firstly it says they plan a summer saturday London to Skegness service. Sounds good if they do. I wonder what stock it will use though? Not sure if the line is cleared for Meridiens. I expect HSTs will be alright, but don't think they have run to Skegness before. Will be interesting and worth the trip anyway.
Also it talks about the proposed Corby service and that if this runs it would be formed of one of the semi fasts to either Nottingham or Derby, which would miss out Wellingborough and Kettering. Wonder what that's on about. I thought the Kettering semi-fast was supposed to extend to Corby. I can't see they would turn back a semi-fast back at Corby, cutting Market Harborough down to 1tph (not a big problem, it's not a greatly used station) loosing another 1tph from Loughborough, and removing the direct link from either Long Eaton or Beeston to London (with the former loosing it's link south down the MML), and of cource loose 1tph from Derby and Nottingham. Reversing at Corby isn't really an option since there isn't, never has been, and without a lot of work never will be a north curve at Glendon Junction. The other option would be to run via the loop to Leicester and reverse, but that would miss out Market Harborough, but that's not mentioned in the article, and also need a fair amount of upgrading to the loop to increase line speeds.
Oviously wikipedia is far from 100% reliable,so I wonder what other people have heard on these.
 

theblackwatch

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Firstly it says they plan a summer saturday London to Skegness service. Sounds good if they do. I wonder what stock it will use though? Not sure if the line is cleared for Meridiens. I expect HSTs will be alright, but don't think they have run to Skegness before. Will be interesting and worth the trip anyway.

Six Bells Junction lists a HRT '125 Special' from St Pancras to Skegness on 22 Feb 92.
 

me123

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Firstly it says they plan a summer saturday London to Skegness service. Sounds good if they do. I wonder what stock it will use though? Not sure if the line is cleared for Meridiens. I expect HSTs will be alright, but don't think they have run to Skegness before. Will be interesting and worth the trip anyway.

"In 2006, all loco hauled services to Skegness were halted due to the weight of the locos buckling the rails frequently."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skegness_railway_station

Fair enough Wikipedia's about as reliable as FGW, but if it's true it would theoretically render HSTs unsuitable for the run.
 

Ascot

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LN185
Boston to Skegness

43=R1
However
57=Y
73=Y
67=not tested
222=not tested

R1
Locomotive hauled trains are not permitted between Boston (exclusive) and Skegness unless specially authorised. See Local Instruction.

Local Instruction

Due to the condition of track, locomotive hauled trains and light locomotives are not permitted to run on the line between Boston and Skegness unless permission has been granted by the Territory Track Engineer, London North Eastern Territory.

Source = Network Rail
 

class 313

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First I've heard of a London St Pancras - Skeggy train... I guess it could be a 170/158? Or the line upgraded for 222s/HSTs?
 
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