Emt Hst

[395 Olympic Javelin]

Does anyone know when the first EMT HST will be in the new livery

 

[37412]

Hopefully never if it's the same livery as that 222 :tongue3:

 

[me123]

EMT said they'd be phasing their new liveries in, so as not to disrupt services. So, it could be a while. I presume they'll get a lot of the Meridians out of the way before bothering with the HSTs.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Will be interesting to see what the HSTs look like in EMT livery. Other one I'm wondering about is the 158s, if they will go in Connect Blue or Mainline White, since Liverpool to Norwich is a bit of both, will be interesting to see how they look if it's the former.

 

[37402]

PC's predominantly blue with a bit of white at the inner end (you'd think they would learn after the second MML livery). Stock the same as the 222's.

 

[Kneedown]

The 158's are supposed to be done in the white livery, but with all the stock shortages i'll be surprised if any units go in for refurbishment/repaint any time in the near future.

 

[P156KWJ]

when EMT send 158s for refurbs, we are (supposed) to be getting 180s temporarily. The EMT 158 fleet is in a mess, we have exTPE, CT, wessex alphaline, and SWT 158s, still in all their previous liveries!

 

[960012]

when EMT send 158s for refurbs, we are (supposed) to be getting 180s temporarily. The EMT 158 fleet is in a mess, we have exTPE, CT, wessex alphaline, and SWT 158s, still in all their previous liveries!

The SWT ones are on hire coz the fleet is such a mess, it will be the same livery anway!

 

[Kneedown]

when EMT send 158s for refurbs, we are (supposed) to be getting 180s temporarily. The EMT 158 fleet is in a mess, we have exTPE, CT, wessex alphaline, and SWT 158s, still in all their previous liveries!

Afraid it looks like it's not going to happen now. Apparently they can't afford it what with bringing in all the extra 153's.
IMHO that is a big, BIG mistake by EMT. It was a golden opportunity to sort out the overcrowding once and for all, and cascade a few 158's down to replace 156's, which could then replace the universally despised 153's (i think "Iron Lung" is a better name than "Dog Box"!)
I know there are people who were pushing hard for it, but as always, others, generally the ones who hold the purse strings, will not take a bold step, albeit one that would reap huge profits and easily cover the extra expense.
I'm becoming convinced that EMT only care about the Mainline side of the operation, and the Connect side of things is seen merely as baggage.

 

[devon_metro]

Looks like a repeat performance of FGW then...

Are we seeing through the mist and realising that the DfT (Department for Tarmac) is destroying our railways?

 

[class 313]

I've not noticed a drop in actual service on the Midland Mainline with EMT. Some scruffy units but hey we cant blame EMT for people not using the bins.

 

[Kneedown]

I think so.
At least when the Tories privatised things, they were honest and open about their intentions, but with this current regime, they like to keep things quiet and stealthy.

I think another part of the problem is that the length of franchises is so short. No company is going to invest a lot of money in a franchise that it could lose after seven or ten years. The frachise needs to be long enough for a company to reap some of the fruits. How about a twenty or thirty year franchise, with a review every five years to see if things are coming up to scratch, and appropriate action taken to remedy things if not satisfactory, up to and including losing the frachise early?

Apologies if i've gone a little off topic.

 

[devon_metro]

Or why not just stop the DfT interference and just lets the TOCs do what they bloody want without worrying about paying the DafT stupid sums of money!

 

[Bonemaster]

I think so.
At least when the Tories privatised things, they were honest and open about their intentions, but with this current regime, they like to keep things quiet and stealthy.

I think another part of the problem is that the length of franchises is so short. No company is going to invest a lot of money in a franchise that it could lose after seven or ten years. The frachise needs to be long enough for a company to reap some of the fruits. How about a twenty or thirty year franchise, with a review every five years to see if things are coming up to scratch, and appropriate action taken to remedy things if not satisfactory, up to and including losing the frachise early?

Apologies if i've gone a little off topic.

If you believe that you will believe anything, a franchise (excluding premium payments) is pretty much without risk, the stations belong to Network Rail, the stock belongs to the ROSCOs, so the financial cost of new stock is minimal and even then the cost of the investment is covered by the ROSCO and paid back over the life of the asset, even if outside of the franchise.

Any new services or stations are a trial for 5 years I think anyway, so even if Network Rail or the ROSCOs charge a premium for the required assets, even with long franchises the premium will still be charged as the risk of the service or station becoming obsolete still remains at 5 years.

The longer franchise argument only comes into play in reality with a vertically intergrated railway, but we dont have this in this country

 

[me123]

I'd maybe reward franchises for investing extra money by then extending said franchise, and when the renewal time arrives, this will go in their favour.

 

[Kneedown]

If you believe that you will believe anything, a franchise (excluding premium payments) is pretty much without risk, the stations belong to Network Rail, the stock belongs to the ROSCOs, so the financial cost of new stock is minimal and even then the cost of the investment is covered by the ROSCO and paid back over the life of the asset, even if outside of the franchise.

Any new services or stations are a trial for 5 years I think anyway, so even if Network Rail or the ROSCOs charge a premium for the required assets, even with long franchises the premium will still be charged as the risk of the service or station becoming obsolete still remains at 5 years.

The longer franchise argument only comes into play in reality with a vertically intergrated railway, but we dont have this in this country

The TOC's still have to pay track access charges, and pay the ROSCO's for the use of the stock.
Take EMT for example, they are not going ahead with the lease of the 180's due to cost. If they were prepared to pay then they could have all 14 if they wanted, but they are not. They would sooner pay slightly less for clapped out 158's, and even more 153's that are in so bad a condition they make the ex-Central units look like the Orient Express!, and to h*ll with improving the service for passengers, and the Traincrew environment.

This is the point i am making.

 

[scb201]

I know this might sound stupid, but if SWT is anything to go by, Stagecoach's way of dealing with things is to get lots of older stock, and spend money bringing it up to standard. The Desiros were needed to make up for the loss of slam door trains that had to go.

If their work on the 158/9's and the 455's is anything to go by, you will end up with some decent trains without them replacing them.

Also, remember the Dft will be announcing the new trains they pledged last year soon. Where are these going? Maybe EMT might get some new trains, probably not, but it might move some trains from other parts of the network there!!

 

[class 313]

I know this might sound stupid, but if SWT is anything to go by, Stagecoach's way of dealing with things is to get lots of older stock, and spend money bringing it up to standard. The Desiros were needed to make up for the loss of slam door trains that had to go.

If their work on the 158/9's and the 455's is anything to go by, you will end up with some decent trains without them replacing them.

The story I've been told about refurbishment on the Meridians that the shorter ones (4/5 car ones) will be put into 2+3 seating. IMO I don't like the idea.

 

[Tom]

The story I've been told about refurbishment on the Meridians that the shorter ones (4/5 car ones) will be put into 2+3 seating. IMO I don't like the idea.

It won't happen.

 

[class 313]

It won't happen.

Good

 

[devon_metro]

How the hell do you get 3+2 seating into a Voyager style bodyshell, the un-needed tilt profile already makes them narrow!

 

[Kneedown]

I know this might sound stupid, but if SWT is anything to go by, Stagecoach's way of dealing with things is to get lots of older stock, and spend money bringing it up to standard. The Desiros were needed to make up for the loss of slam door trains that had to go.

Were the "Pigs" slam door or power door? Forgive my lack of knowledge as regards this, but aren't they being transferred for use elsewhere on the Southern? And weren't they universally liked? So why replace them?

If their work on the 158/9's and the 455's is anything to go by, you will end up with some decent trains without them replacing them.

We've got two of their units at the minute, and although they look pretty, they're no better than any 158 that we've already got. They don't accelerate any faster, they're no more reliable, the Drivers cab is still small, dark, claustrophobic and uncomfortable on long journeys, although i do confess that i like the direction handle on 890. Far more user friendly! But underneath they are still bog standard 158's, and new carpets, seat covers and light bulbs won't change that. Now if they were to re-design the entire front end with a new cab, bolt a 600hp lump on and uprate them to 125mph, THEN i might be impressed! :razz:

Also, remember the Dft will be announcing the new trains they pledged last year soon. Where are these going? Maybe EMT might get some new trains, probably not, but it might move some trains from other parts of the network there!!

They'll all go to London and the South, Manchester, and Richard Branson's tilting tapeworms! The East Midland areas don't seem to matter, never have, probably never will! If we get anything it'll probably be more 153's that have been replaced elsewhere by shiny new things!

Regards,
Kneedown.

 

[Tom]

Were the "Pigs" slam door or power door? Forgive my lack of knowledge as regards this, but aren't they being transferred for use elsewhere on the Southern? And weren't they universally liked? So why replace them?

The class 442s are power door units, with 1 slam door in the guards van area. This I believe is being removed with introduction to Southern.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I will always have an affection for the piggies.Hope they go to a better life.:?