EMT December 2008 timetable

[jacknottm]

The ex Lincoln is booked for 2 sets, the meridian joins at at Nottingham with a fresh one from Etches Park, however the doors in the fresh unit are not then released until Kettering apparently. This providing extra seats

Jack

 

[P156KWJ]

looks like a real cock-up today, my guess is a problem at Trent PSB. 2L75 hasn't even managed to leave Leicester yet and it was due out at 15:25! All trains from the Birmingham, Leeds, Leicester, London and Mansfield seem to be delayed between 5-30 minutes, the worst so far being 1D65 (1419 BHM-NOT) which is stuck at Trent Junction 25 down.

 

[222001]

looks like a real cock-up today, my guess is a problem at Trent PSB. 2L75 hasn't even managed to leave Leicester yet and it was due out at 15:25! All trains from the Birmingham, Leeds, Leicester, London and Mansfield seem to be delayed between 5-30 minutes, the worst so far being 1D65 (1419 BHM-NOT) which is stuck at Trent Junction 25 down.

On live departures all trains are showing as on time with the star(*) saying this train was meant to get to this point and it has not been recieved. Are they actualy delayed?

 

[David Pemberton]

Cost/crew saving apart, what's the idea of driving about two five car Meridians nailed together, but only letting the passengers into half the train?

This morning the 2x5 0648 NOT-STP seemed to run as a 5-car all the way until Wellingborough. As far as I could tell the second crew got on at Kettering, but didn't make the set available until the next station.

Perhaps someone who knows more about Meridian operation (222001 - your ideas?) can elighten us as to the merits of diagrams and crew rostering that means this makes sense to EMT but not its passengers.

Yet again the journey home on the 1630 KGX-GRA, 1745 GRA-NOT route gave me a whole table to myself in the quiet coach, and another table to myself to Nottingham, arriving 4 minutes early.

 

[222001]

Cost/crew saving apart, what's the idea of driving about two five car Meridians nailed together, but only letting the passengers into half the train?

This morning the 2x5 0648 NOT-STP seemed to run as a 5-car all the way until Wellingborough. As far as I could tell the second crew got on at Kettering, but didn't make the set available until the next station.

Perhaps someone who knows more about Meridian operation (222001 - your ideas?) can elighten us as to the merits of diagrams and crew rostering that means this makes sense to EMT but not its passengers.

This is to do with platform lengths. When a 2 x 5 Meridian stops at Loughborough the whole of the second half of the train is off the platform, this means that if there is anyone in the second half of the train to get off here they can't. I think a few other stations have short platforms too.

I have seen a 2 x 5 car Meridian in service all the way from Sheffield to London calling at all stops including Loughborough and both trains were open. They train crew kept stressing that anybody in the second train would not be able to get off at Loughborough. So this must have been an exception.

In my opinion either Loughborough platform needs extending or the other Meridian needs putting to better use elsewhere.

Edit: Has anyone else noticed more a lot of Meridian coaches have been in near darkness due to emergency lighting recently!? Seems to be when there is an engine failure in two carriages next to each other one of them will be an emergency lighting. 222002 and 222003 were both running around with one coach like this today.

One more note! - what the hell has happened to the electronic reservation and destination displays! All we get now is Coach A or Coach B etc no other information is given, has someone forgot to program the new journeys!

 

[tbtc]

This is to do with platform lengths. When a 2 x 5 Meridian stops at Loughborough the whole of the second half of the train is off the platform, this means that if there is anyone in the second half of the train to get off here they can't. I think a few other stations have short platforms too.

I have seen a 2 x 5 car Meridian in service all the way from Sheffield to London calling at all stops including Loughborough and both trains were open. They train crew kept stressing that anybody in the second train would not be able to get off at Loughborough. So this must have been an exception.

In my opinion either Loughborough platform needs extending or the other Meridian needs putting to better use elsewhere

Strange they don't open the other set up for Leicester though

 

[Edvid]

Now I can understand why the difference between load factors in the different halves of 10-car Meridian formations can be significant, although marginal load factors for stations where the full length is accessible are still higher in the front half as I understand it.

As seen from Harpenden tonight, the 1915 STP-NOT, 1925 STP-DBY, and 1930 STP-LDS were a 7-car Meridian (should be a HST), a 5-car Meridian and a HST respectively. The 1930 also calls at LTN, and judging the amount of spare platform left, it's hard to say if a 11*23m train could fit in or not.

I've also noticed the lack of information on the Meridian LED screens today.

 

[222001]

As seen from Harpenden tonight, the 1915 STP-NOT, 1925 STP-DBY, and 1930 STP-LDS were a 7-car Meridian (should be a HST), a 5-car Meridian and a HST respectively. The 1930 also calls at LTN, and judging the amount of spare platform left, it's hard to say if a 11*23m train could fit in or not.

I've also noticed the lack of information on the Meridian LED screens today.

Wow a lot of 7 car Meridians in use then! What was on routes that these 7 cars should have been on. The 17:55 London-Sheffield was also a 7 car Meridian.

I've been on three Meridians since the timetable change. 222023 just has the coach number like - "A". 222002 is like this "Coach A" and 222003 is a scrolling display of "Coach A - standard". Obviously not very co-ordinated!

 

[Edvid]

Was on the service from Lincoln today - information is still lacking.

Here's another small batch of formation updates:
0855 STP-SHF is a 7-car Meridian (seen at LTN, right time assumed)
0915 STP-NOT is a HST (seen at LTN, right time assumed)
1255 STP-SHF is a 7-car Meridian (seen at Kentish Town [KTN], right time assumed)
1102 NOT-STP is a 5-car Meridian (seen at KTN, right time assumed)

 

[John_158]

Does anyone know if the Unit that come off the 21.35 LLST-NOTT (FRI) would go on the 05.04 NOTT-NOR on the Saturday Morning.

 

[222001]

Was on the service from Lincoln today - information is still lacking.

Here's another small batch of formation updates:
0855 STP-SHF is a 7-car Meridian (seen at LTN, right time assumed)
0915 STP-NOT is a HST (seen at LTN, right time assumed)
1255 STP-SHF is a 7-car Meridian (seen at Kentish Town [KTN], right time assumed)
1102 NOT-STP is a 5-car Meridian (seen at KTN, right time assumed)

Some more - I was on these services today:-

11:27 SHF-STP is a 7-car Meridian (222004) - 2 or 3 engines down
13:55 STP-SHF is a 7-car Meridian (222005) - 2 or 3 engines down

also the other day I seen:-

10:55 STP-SHF is a 5-car Meridian
13:27 SHF-STP is a 5-car Meridian

all the above are the correct trains for services

 

[David Pemberton]

0648 NOT-STP this am they decided to open the trailing 5-car at Leicester. BTW the train doesn't stop at Loughborough so not sure that platform length is the factor.

Today the onboard PIS dsiplayed coach N for the first half of the journey and then changed its mind and displayed coach K. No seat reservations again, though today they put cards out. The steward didn't know which coach the buffet was in and settled on coach C. The buffet in the trailing 5-car didn't open.

Yesterday the PIS displayed the destination, but all in lower case as if the train manager had typed it in locally and could figure how to character shift.

I thought that Meridians could cross-feed power to failed units? I've been in one where the engine shut down so often I thought it was some sort of economy trial like Transpennine did: lights and HVAC remained on though. Perhaps this only works for one failed unit, after that all the power has to go to traction to keep the thing moving.

All teething troubles, I suspect that EMT are "feeling their way into" the new timetable.

 

[WillPS]

Why don't they park the 5 + 5 set so that the coupling is in line with the middle of the platform, then both sets would have access to the platform.

 

[Edvid]

Here's another list:

1715 STP-NOT is a HST
1730 STP-NOT is in 10-car Meridian formation
1745 STP-DBY is a HST (was also my service back home)
1755 STP-SHF is a 7-car Meridian
1800 STP-KET is a 7-car Meridian
1815 STP-LDS is a HST

Regarding the above, I noted them all at StP. Presumably the fairly intensive utilisation of platforms means that the trains leave in the order in which they arrived (and I wasn't aware of any notably late arrivals).

I got to the MML concourse just after 1705, and saw only the 1715 and half of the 1730. The other half of the 1730 arrived before the 1715 departed, and for a few minutes only platform 4 was occupied. Then came what would become the 1745 and the 1755 before the 1730 departed, and after that the trains for the 1800 and the 1815 arrived. In the space of about 20 minutes, 1 occupied platform became 4.

The 1745 came in at 1720 and was readied for boarding after 11 minutes which for a HST must be quick. Upon departure, I was surprised at how many spare seats there were in coach E given that First Class was at the front - certainly nowhere near as busy as the first train (of each weekday) from Sheffield.

Oh, and the 0726 DBY-STP was a 5-car Meridian again. Not sure if this was another substitution for a HST or in fact the correct train.

 

[222001]

Here's another list:

1715 STP-NOT is a HST
1730 STP-NOT is in 10-car Meridian formation
1745 STP-DBY is a HST (was also my service back home)
1755 STP-SHF is a 7-car Meridian
1800 STP-KET is a 7-car Meridian
1815 STP-LDS is a HST

The 1745 came in at 1720 and was readied for boarding after 11 minutes which for a HST must be quick. Upon departure, I was surprised at how many spare seats there were in coach E given that First Class was at the front - certainly nowhere near as busy as the first train (of each weekday) from Sheffield.

Oh, and the 0726 DBY-STP was a 5-car Meridian again. Not sure if this was another substitution for a HST or in fact the correct train.

The 11:27 from Sheffield (7 car Meridian) was quite busy! It was ok until Derby but after that there must have been people standing after that as there was a crowd of people waiting to get on. On the way down to Derby there was nothing to say which coach was which, no seat reservations and no destination display. How fun! I think people at Derby don't seem to want to use their dedicated service which leaves 17 minutes later. The sooner they extend the Derby service to Sheffield the better everything will be!!!

Some interesting seating facts which may explain some slight overcrowding on the above:

5 car Meridian

STD = 40A + 68B + 62C + 22D = 192
1ST = 28D + 22G = 50

7 car Meridian

STD = 38A + 68C + 68D + 62E = 236
1ST = 42F + 42G + 22J = 106

HST

STD = 63A + 74B + 74C + 74D + 72E = 357
1ST = 17F + 46G + 47J = 110

5 + 5 car Meridian

STD = 40A + 68B + 62C + 22D + 40N + 62P + 68K + 22N = 384
1ST = 28D + 22G + 28L + 22M = 100

Hmm a 7 car Meridian has a whoping 121 less standard seats than a HST! Only a 5+5 Meridians has more standard seats than a HST.

 

[Edvid]

Interesting that the HSTs have 357 STD seats and not 327 as I thought earlier. So that's only 27 fewer STD seats than a 10-car Meridian formation, I suppose even with that the first train from Sheffield would probably be standing room only by LTN - and it doesn't stop at Bedford or Luton either!

7-car Meridians appear to have at one (perhaps even two) too many First Class coaches; the same problems also apply to 5-car Meridians albeit to a somewhat lesser extent. Some of the First and maybe even Composite coaches should be converted to Standard Class but judging by the duration of the conversions at the tail-end of the latest Meridian reformations that might take a few years.

I imagine Derby folk prefer the Sheffield fasts to their own because there is a ~15-20 minute difference in journey times to/from London.

Just out of interest, how many seats (in each coach) does a Pullman HST have? And in relation to your Sheffield-London tables, what exactly do the terms VERY LIGHT/LIGHT/MEDIUM/HEAVY/VERY HEAVY mean?

 

[Pumbaa]

Loadings.

 

[Edvid]

Sorry, I should elaborate. What I'm asking is what each term means with regard to load factors (e.g. MEDIUM could be 50-75% of seats taken up).

 

[222001]

Interesting that the HSTs have 357 STD seats and not 327 as I thought earlier. So that's only 27 fewer STD seats than a 10-car Meridian formation, I suppose even with that the first train from Sheffield would probably be standing room only by LTN - and it doesn't stop at Bedford or Luton either!

7-car Meridians appear to have at one (perhaps even two) too many First Class coaches; the same problems also apply to 5-car Meridians albeit to a somewhat lesser extent. Some of the First and maybe even Composite coaches should be converted to Standard Class but judging by the duration of the conversions at the tail-end of the latest Meridian reformations that might take a few years.

Agreed! They should convert one of the 3 first class coaches on 7 car Meridians to standard. And what happened to the 5+5 Meridians on Sheffield services that were once mentioned.

I imagine Derby folk prefer the Sheffield fasts to their own because there is a ~15-20 minute difference in journey times to/from London.

Apparently this will be extended to Sheffield in 2010

Just out of interest, how many seats (in each coach) does a Pullman HST have? And in relation to your Sheffield-London tables, what exactly do the terms VERY LIGHT/LIGHT/MEDIUM/HEAVY/VERY HEAVY mean?

Those are loadings which I have experienced between Chesterfield and Derby (as I commute between these) on these services. I have also incorporated how many people got on or off at Derby into the loadings. The lightest loading was the 13:27 from Sheffield-London which was a 5 car Meridian - I shared coach A with 3 other people!

Pullman HST:

HST - NON-STANDARD

STD = 63A + 74C + 74D + 72E = 283
1ST = 17F + 46G + 47H + 47J = 157

I'm hoping when EMT get the Hull Trains pioneers they can stop the Sheffield and Corby diagrams sharing and either double up some of the Sheffields.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry, I should elaborate. What I'm asking is what each term means with regard to load factors (e.g. MEDIUM could be 50-75% of seats taken up).

Very Heavy = All seats taken
Heavy = 75%
Medium = 50%
Light = 25%

I would say.

 

[Edvid]

Thanks again.

On that basis, would Very Light be 'no seats taken'? On a serious note, how do those values relate to the intervals that would exist - for example, would you consider 35% as Light or Medium? Would 90% be Heavy or Very Heavy?

 

[222001]

Thanks again.

On that basis, would Very Light be 'no seats taken'? On a serious note, how do those values relate to the intervals that would exist - for example, would you consider 35% as Light or Medium? Would 90% be Heavy or Very Heavy?

I would class:
over 90% as Very Heavy
over 70% and up to 90% as Heavy
over 50% and up to 70% as Medium
over 25% and up to 50% as Light
under 25% as Very Light.

 

[Edvid]

I've just read issue 176 of Rail Management, and they say that EMT's December 2008 track access agreement was signed off less than 48 hours before the timetable changeover at 2am on December 14!! hock: Virgin also cut it close with their TAA (theirs was signed off on December 10).

 

[222001]

On a good note EMT have started to program some of their Meridians with the new services so the seat reservations can finally work!

 

[P156KWJ]

most meridians on the Lincoln run display nothing on the front. However, on the first day it oddly said 'Derby'. :???:

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

I have read somewhere that EMT are diverted via Harringworth Viaduct Sundays only during Feb/March 2009 on the London-Nottingham servicr, Could this be the reason journey time is 3hrs?.

 

[P156KWJ]

maybe, think I've done that route on a sunday before

 

[Edvid]

The Bedford Commuters Association have published their latest newsletter, and they've listed the formation of peak EMT services with Bedford stops:

0440 LEI-STP - 7 car Meridian
0517 DBY-STP - 5 car Meridian
0647 KET-STP - 10 car Meridian [1]
0556 SHF-STP - HST
0710 NOT-STP - HST
0726 DBY-STP - HST [2]
1600 STP-KET - 5 car Meridian
1630 STP-NOT - 10 car Meridian
1700 STP-DBY - 10 car Meridian
1800 STP-KET - 10 car Meridian [3]
1830 STP-LCN - 10 car Meridian
1900 STP-KET - HST

Notes
[1] - matches sighting on 15/12/08
[2] - contradicts sightings on 16/12/08 and 17/12/08 (both 5-car Meridians)
[3] - contradicts sighting on 17/12/08 (7-car Meridian)

Interestingly, all three evening peak down calls at LTN by EMT involve full-length ~230m formations whereas it was 2 out of 3 in the previous timetable.

 

[222001]

The Bedford Commuters Association have published their latest newsletter, and they've listed the formation of peak EMT services with Bedford stops:

0440 LEI-STP - 7 car Meridian
0517 DBY-STP - 5 car Meridian
0647 KET-STP - 10 car Meridian [1]
0556 SHF-STP - HST
0710 NOT-STP - HST
0726 DBY-STP - HST [2]
1600 STP-KET - 5 car Meridian
1630 STP-NOT - 10 car Meridian
1700 STP-DBY - 10 car Meridian
1800 STP-KET - 10 car Meridian [3]
1830 STP-LCN - 10 car Meridian
1900 STP-KET - HST

Notes
[1] - matches sighting on 15/12/08
[2] - contradicts sightings on 16/12/08 and 17/12/08 (both 5-car Meridians)
[3] - contradicts sighting on 17/12/08 (7-car Meridian)

Interestingly, all three evening peak down calls at LTN by EMT involve full-length ~230m formations whereas it was 2 out of 3 in the previous timetable.

Where are they getting the stock from to run all those 10 cars? Hull Trains Pioneers? I've not seen a single 10-car since the start of the new timetable (probably not likely to see many being in the Sheffield/Derby area looking at that).

 

[Max]

Where are they getting the stock from to run all those 10 cars? Hull Trains Pioneers? I've not seen a single 10-car since the start of the new timetable (probably not likely to see many being in the Sheffield/Derby area looking at that).

Pioneers could never form part of a 10 car working as they are only 4 cars.

 

[John_158]

What a mess this Winter time Table is in Some areas as i notice that the 20.58 from Widnes to Liverpool Lime Street Northern Rail Stopping Service which was formerly timed at 20.49 for which now always seems to turn up two minutes late at Widnes then four minutes late at Liverpool South Park Way.

Then gets up near Edge Hill and has to wait for two to 3 minutes for the EMT Fast Service to go past just affter an ECS Pendolino which results in the service arriving in Liverpool Lime St up to 7 minutes late givng a long wait for anm onward Merseyrail connection fom Liverpool Ctl .

It seems not that they don't get enough time to get in and out of the loop at Warrington Ctl and the two Services are too close together how they where allowed to do this is beyond belief as the Fast Service Should be in Front not behind ie..Fast Service from Widnes 5mins Past and Stopping Service at Something Like 17 mins Past as does on Sundays.

Another example of sheer stupidity is at St.Helens Ctl where you have the Stopping Service to Liverpool at 25past and the fast Service at 39 past which leads to the fast service on a go slow for which there is not point in it being a fast service.