EMT December 2008 timetable

[me123]

Moaning about only having 4tph is pathetic; I know of loads of places that would kill for such a service. [/personal view]

 

[richa2002]

I think it's only 4tph at one part of the day.

 

[class 313]

EMT shouldn't have given away so many of their HSTs/stock. Although the DfT probably had a part to play in that.

 

[Roberto]

Here's a video clip of Kettering pax having words with the EMT MD:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7708665.stm

By the way Roberto, are you in that clip?

No, sorry I'm not in the clip but saw this on the local BBC news today and have read the local paper articles as well. This new timetable isn't going down well in Kettering or Wellingborough!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Moaning about only having 4tph is pathetic; I know of loads of places that would kill for such a service. [/personal view]

It's only 4 trains during the rush hours. This is where EMT are trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.

Many places have about 4 trains per hour during the rush hour granted. But, during the rest of the day it's one train per hour to Leicester (Northwards) where we currently have 2. Southwards it's 2 trains per hour but both are semi fast and will take longer than at present.

 

[222001]

No, sorry I'm not in the clip but saw this on the local BBC news today and have read the local paper articles as well. This new timetable isn't going down well in Kettering or Wellingborough!

Even if it isn't going down well I don't think EMT will do anything. It is important to speed up services up north to attract new customers. It is annoying when going to London if you have to stop at every single town on the way thats why they are giving Kettering / Corby its own hourly service. People want a fast service that just stops at a few stations. Kettering and Wellingborough are not the most important places on the EMT network.

 

[richa2002]

Um, you didn't have to stop at every station on the way back with the old timetable, just get a 'fast' Sheffield which one or two stopped at Luton/Bedford. Avoid the ones that stop if you don't want to stop...

 

[Roberto]

Even if it isn't going down well I don't think EMT will do anything. It is important to speed up services up north to attract new customers. It is annoying when going to London if you have to stop at every single town on the way thats why they are giving Kettering / Corby its own hourly service. People want a fast service that just stops at a few stations. Kettering and Wellingborough are not the most important places on the EMT network.

As has already been pointed out few trains stop at Kettering or W'borough even in the current timetable. You have always had a fast service with few stops.

What you don't seem to appreciate is the fact those trains going to London in the new timetable all stop south of W'borough. Like you in Sheffield, why should the majority of Northants users going to London have to stop at Bedford and Luton where every man and his dog get on instead of them using their cheap and frequent FCC service?

Under the old MML timetable it was at least better where one train stopped at Bedford then onto London the next missed out Bedford and went to Luton. Thus, we only had the one stop, now it's virtually all stations to St Pancras!

We pay Intercity prices in Northants for a Network Southeast type service which is not fair. All we ask is for a decent level of service. We are not asking for all trains to go north, we never have had that level of service.

 

[P156KWJ]

EMT shouldn't have given away so many of their HSTs/stock. Although the DfT probably had a part to play in that.

if you're on about the class 43s that went to XC that is the fault of the DfT. However, it did make simpler pools as AFAIK all EMT's HSTs are now porterbrook, whereas it used to be mixed Porterbrook / Angel

 

[222001]

As has already been pointed out few trains stop at Kettering or W'borough even in the current timetable. You have always had a fast service with few stops.

What you don't seem to appreciate is the fact those trains going to London in the new timetable all stop south of W'borough. Like you in Sheffield, why should the majority of Northants users going to London have to stop at Bedford and Luton where every man and his dog get on instead of them using their cheap and frequent FCC service?

Under the old MML timetable it was at least better where one train stopped at Bedford then onto London the next missed out Bedford and went to Luton. Thus, we only had the one stop, now it's virtually all stations to St Pancras!

We pay Intercity prices in Northants for a Network Southeast type service which is not fair. All we ask is for a decent level of service. We are not asking for all trains to go north, we never have had that level of service.

Hmm yes I see where you are coming from. Looking at it from an overall view, the timetable should have been kept similar to what it is now. Perhaps with a few changes to make it more efficient etc. EMT really shouldn't be taking passengers from Luton to London that should be the job of FCC.

I'm sure taking HSTs off the Sheffield services will proove a misstake with overcrowding. Quite a lot of services are going to be 5 car Meridians.

 

[Techniquest]

I know what you mean about not wanting to stop all over the place, I'm like that with Didcot Parkway. It's probably not that much slower than the fast ones, but it feels like forever and a day to stop, pick up/drop off then get going again. What always gets me up is that not even the long distance ones got away from it, indeed it seemed to be more 'the further it goes, the more it should stop'. Whereas the Bristol to London runs would typically run fast. Thankfully it seems better these days.

Still, they had the nerve to call one of their London to Cheltenham service 'The Cheltenham Spa Express'. Spherical objects, it takes ages due to having to call at Didcot and put up with lengthy dwell times because it's full of people getting off. The name seemed so ironic really. I am of the belief that those going to Didcot could get the fast LTV Turbos instead of cramming HSTs full.

The one thing I hope EMT fix is the way they print the timetables. It's all fine and well saying that HSTs are in green and Meridians purple (you'd think they'd have been more original than to copy MML...), but at least bleedin' make sure they are then! Not only that but the thin black for the connecting times and the bold black times for the stops on the services weren't different enough to clearly note the difference.

And when will they stop saying their services operate to London St. Pancras International? Should one expect to pull in alongside a Eurostar for Paris or Brussels? EMT run to St. Pancras Domestic, not International.

The only thing I like about EMT currently is that they're getting 43089 back. The rest of it seems a horrendously horrible operation to me. Perhaps made obvious by, excluding The Valenta Venturer, the fact I've only travelled with EMT on one day since they took over almost a year ago.

I rank them below FGW, something I doubt I could have said when it was MML.

 

[class 313]

Hmm yes I see where you are coming from. Looking at it from an overall view, the timetable should have been kept similar to what it is now. Perhaps with a few changes to make it more efficient etc. EMT really shouldn't be taking passengers from Luton to London that should be the job of FCC.

I'm sure taking HSTs off the Sheffield services will proove a misstake with overcrowding. Quite a lot of services are going to be 5 car Meridians.

I'm not overally sure on the 5 or 7/10 car Meridian Ratio but I'm sure EMT wouldn't be as stupid to run more than a handful of diagrams with 5 car Meridians. Though saying that, one diagram with a 5 car is one diagram too much. Though the 5 cars will be the Corby/Nottinghams? And I guess there will be splitting and coupling up of services too...

 

[222001]

I'm not overally sure on the 5 or 7/10 car Meridian Ratio but I'm sure EMT wouldn't be as stupid to run more than a handful of diagrams with 5 car Meridians. Though saying that, one diagram with a 5 car is one diagram too much. Though the 5 cars will be the Corby/Nottinghams? And I guess there will be splitting and coupling up of services too...

The Corby and Sheffields are diagram sharing so 7 car Meridians will also go to Corby. I am just hoping that the 5 cars will be upped to 10 cars before leaving for Sheffield after coming from Corby. 5 cars London-Sheffield would just be silly.

 

[Kneedown]

Just looking at the staff briefing document for the new timetable.

It would appear that the number of four car sets on the Norwich - Liverpool run is going to be reduced even further, but further down the page it says that "Megatrain" tickets will be introduced between Norwich and Nottingham.
So basically what we have here is that what little capacity there is, is going to be reduced even further, but at the same time an incentive is being launched to get even MORE people onto overcrowded trains!

 

[222001]

Just looking at the staff briefing document for the new timetable.

It would appear that the number of four car sets on the Norwich - Liverpool run is going to be reduced even further, but further down the page it says that "Megatrain" tickets will be introduced between Norwich and Nottingham.
So basically what we have here is that what little capacity there is, is going to be reduced even further, but at the same time an incentive is being launched to get even MORE people onto overcrowded trains!

That's not good. At least passengers between Nottingham and Sheffield have another service to choose from which sould help out. I hope East Midlands Trains source more trains or order some new ones at some point in their franchise. It seems unlikely but it could happen.

 

[87015]

I hope East Midlands Trains source more trains or order some new ones at some point in their franchise. It seems unlikely but it could happen.

Don't be silly, would require the bus bandits to spend some money!!

 

[Guinness]

Move to CREWE and use the WCML is the answer.

 

[The Planner]

Yes, but Crewe is a bit of a hole....

 

[gordonthemoron]

Yes, but Crewe is a bit of a hole....

that's a bit of an understatement

 

[Guinness]

But you don't get the problems with EMT to London though.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Nottingham to London is easy enough via Grantham

 

[westcoaster]

I guess so though reliable information courtesy of EMT is somewhat lacking as they remain very tight lipped about it all.

BTW, I loved the write up on EMT's timetable page where they boast about speedier journey times, more seats etc in their super new winter timetable! What a joke.

It certainly won't mean quicker journeys or more seats if you live in Northants seeing just about every train will now call at Bedford and the two Luton Stations. Try fighting for a seat on any EMT train leaving London that stops in Bedfordshire and see what I mean. I had hoped that EMT would have adressed this real problem but it seems they have just made things worse!

so what about the passengers like me who travel from wellingborough to bedford, and there are quiet alot of people who do, what are we to do then?
seriously there is nothing wrong with this timetable, iirc there are only three evening peak trains at the moment that stop at bedford the 1608/1708/1808 that 1tph not much is it, in the new timetable that goes to 2tph so im more than happy with it, if fcc were to introduce some fast services to bedford say calling at luton then bedford maybe emt serices would be less busy.

why do the corby services sit at kettering for half an hour before continuing is a bit bizzare( capacity maybe).

also with there being no units available until early 2009 does this mean no corby/ketting services until then, so making wellingborough/kettiering 1tph.

 

[Roberto]

so what about the passengers like me who travel from wellingborough to bedford, and there are quiet alot of people who do, what are we to do then?
seriously there is nothing wrong with this timetable, iirc there are only three evening peak trains at the moment that stop at bedford the 1608/1708/1808 that 1tph not much is it, in the new timetable that goes to 2tph so im more than happy with it, if fcc were to introduce some fast services to bedford say calling at luton then bedford maybe emt serices would be less busy.

why do the corby services sit at kettering for half an hour before continuing is a bit bizzare( capacity maybe).

also with there being no units available until early 2009 does this mean no corby/ketting services until then, so making wellingborough/kettiering 1tph.

I have written elsewhere that what EMT should have done is make one of the hourly trains stop at Bedford and or either Luton but let the other each hour go fast to London from Northants, much as they used to do under MML.

I cannot see why all the trains need to stop in Bedfordshire when the vast majority of Northants passengers, during the day, are wanting to go to London, not Luton or Bedford. It used to be the case that to get to Brighton, Gatwick etc it was useful to change trains in Beds to avoid that horrid walk to the old Thameslink station. Now of course you can change at St Pancras.

There simply isn't a need for all trains to call at both Beds stations, other than to let on the hoards who won't use FCC in Bedford and less so Luton.

I do though agree as well that FCC should be forced to run at least an hourly fast from Bedford calling at say Luton and maybe St Albans only then onwards south. They are causing this problem by running such a slow, stop at all stations, service.

 

[westcoaster]

but only 2tph will be stopping in beds, whats wrong with that, its called a clockface timetable, no need to be discruntled just because you can't have a fast train straight to london, you would only safe a few minutes without the other stops, basically if emt missed out these stops they will miss out on the shared revenue.

which equals times v money and money will win.

 

[222001]

also with there being no units available until early 2009 does this mean no corby/ketting services until then, so making wellingborough/kettiering 1tph.

The Corby service will run but it will terminate at Kettering.

 

[westcoaster]

The Corby service will run but it will terminate at Kettering.

ta very muchy

 

[Roberto]

but only 2tph will be stopping in beds, whats wrong with that, its called a clockface timetable, no need to be discruntled just because you can't have a fast train straight to london, you would only safe a few minutes without the other stops, basically if emt missed out these stops they will miss out on the shared revenue.

which equals times v money and money will win.

I'm not so bothered about the time but I am bothered about having to always compete for seats with people from Luton and Bedford when travelling home from London when they have a perfectly adequate FCC service.

I think as I say, one train per hour stopping in Beds is quite enough. We should have the same advantage as the much smaller Mkt. Harboro' who will have one non stop and one stopping per hour. What's so special about Mkt. Harboro'?:roll:

 

[westcoaster]

I'm not so bothered about the time but I am bothered about having to always compete for seats with people from Luton and Bedford when travelling home from London when they have a perfectly adequate FCC service.

I think as I say, one train per hour stopping in Beds is quite enough. We should have the same advantage as the much smaller Mkt. Harboro' who will have one non stop and one stopping per hour. What's so special about Mkt. Harboro'?:roll:

with getting a seat, at the end of the day if all passengers are paying and have valid tickets the situation is down to you, not meaning to be rude but the earlier you get to the station the better chance you have of getting a seat..

also not being rude it could be down to the patronage of the towns not the size, there is far more affluance in mkt harb than the likes of wellingborough and kettering, and i live nearby (thats not why honest)

 

[David Pemberton]

ORCATS Raid

Page 6 of this document http://downloads.rwa-rail.co.uk/Robert_Watson_Using_Network_Capacity_Effectively.pdf

By consultants RWA Rail http://www.rwa-rail.co.uk/index.htm

Suggests that rail companies make stops just to "game" the ticket revenue allocation system. So if you wonder why they stop because: a) few seem to get on/off, b) train already packed, c) very good alternative services - it may be because they are playing the system.

Wednesday this week I took the 0730 Robin Hood, which was full after Beeston with some people already standing, had people sitting on the floor after Leicester, and still stopped twice more... and that's meant to be the prestige "named" service especially for the needs of Nottingham.

Playing the system? I think we should be told...

If you want to find out how the passenger flows work the RUS baseline data is here:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...seline information/east mids rus appendix.pdf


Nottingham provides more London volume than anywhere else (page 39), it has just 2 tph, neither of them very fast, and all with more stops than the Derby "slow". It's a funny old world.

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Nottingham to London is easy enough via Grantham

Yep, and in the new timetable the 1630 from KingsX with the change at Grantham, still gets you to Nottingham 8 minutes quicker that the 1630 from St Pancras.

EMT should be ashamed of that one.

 

[MCR247]

Hi, is the new timetable availible to read in full?? i know you can get it on my journeys, but i need one in full!!

 

[David Pemberton]

Hi, is the new timetable availible to read in full?? i know you can get it on my journeys, but i need one in full!!

It's here:

http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/EMTrains/AboutUs/StakeholderInformation/