EMT again

[OwlMan]

I have again had problems with an EMT train manager. This time he claimed that a Wolverhampton - London SVR was not valid via Leicester because it cost less than a Leicester - London SSR. (It does £50.70 cf £56.00. It is valid using maps CN + SY)

He said the routeing guide did not apply as the ticket was cheaper than the Leicester ticket.

He took my details and said that he would report me for using an invalid ticket.

Peter

 

[Pumbaa]

Oh excellent. Here's hoping you have a speedy and proficient response.

 

[Ferret]

Oooh, does this mean that some EMT staff do actually know what a TIR is then?! If all the TM has done is withdrawn a ticket he suspects is invalid and taken details then I can't see much of a problem, and the OP should be perfectly able to respond if he even receives correspondence by pointing out what the routeing guide actually says.

Apart from coming out and saying that the OP will be reported rather than just investigate the ticket's validity, the TM here hasn't got too much wrong! No incorrectly issued UFNs and hopefully no attempts to evict the OP I assume!

 

[GadgetMan]

I work along that route as a Guard.

To be fair to the EMT Guard I'd have also questioned that route as it does not seem to be a reasonable route. Having gone onto the national rail website it also claims that more than one ticket is required for that journey.

I appreciate the routing guide says it is valid, but from a Guards point of view my natural instinct would also have been to suggest it isn't valid and then go onto withdraw the ticket for a look into it later on.

 

[maniacmartin]

I think its fair enough to investigate the ticket GadgetMan, but saying the the Routeing Guide does not apply because the ticket is cheaper is clearly wrong.

 

[island]

Was the ticket withdrawn, and if so did you get a replacement to complete your journey?

 

[soil]

I work along that route as a Guard.

To be fair to the EMT Guard I'd have also questioned that route as it does not seem to be a reasonable route. Having gone onto the national rail website it also claims that more than one ticket is required for that journey.

The National Rail website is using an unpublished version of the routeing guide in which CN+SY has been replaced with SF, "Stafford to London Euston".

This consists of the two Virgin routes from Euston to Stafford, plus Willesden Junction - Clapham Junction, and the Coventry - Nuneaton, Tamworth - Birmingham, Nuneaton - Birmingham, Lichfield - Birmingham, Rugeley - Birmingham, Smethwick - Moor Street and Wolverhampton - Walsall lines.

The National Rail website is not a particularly good guide to validity.

 

[RJ]

He took my details and said that he would report me for using an invalid ticket.

Ah, don't worry about that one. The last EMT member of staff who said that to me got into serious trouble after I made a damning complaint which for which they had no defence.

I've investigated the validity and upon improvisation, have identified a shockingly cheap ticket which I may well be using in the future.

 

[sonic2009]

I had a slight problem with a EMT guard the other week with regards to the Routeing Guide, I spent 20mins trying to persuade the guard my ticket was valid. In the end she gave up and agreed with me, but said I will inform my manager about this ticket.

The ticket i was using was a Tamworth - Liverpool CDR via Derby & Sheffield

 

[OwlMan]

Was the ticket withdrawn, and if so did you get a replacement to complete your journey?

NO. They did nothing to withdraw the ticket, just said we will report you for fare evasion.

 

[323235]

Sounds like a blatant attempt to try and scare you into not using creative tickets again.

 

[RJ]

NO. They did nothing to withdraw the ticket, just said we will report you for fare evasion.

That is out of order. Those guards have a career and so are fully aware of the implications a criminal record may have on a person.

By telling you that they will be doing everything within their power to set the wheels in motion for you to be prosecuted, they're deliberately trying to cause distress and upset.

I fail to understand why there is any need to submit a report for fare evasion when no criminal offence has been committed. What is it they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing? I can only sympathise with the staff these guards report to (and the BTP in some cases) who have to deal with hare brained waste of time reports of this nature.

 

[MCW]

hmmm... This is a good one.

I know it won't be quick... but give me about a week, I have mates who work at Leicester station I'll casually ask about the tickets in such a circumstance.

EDIT: in mind said staff will remain totally anonymous ETC in this scenario (I wouldn't name them anyway! )

 

[sheff1]

He said the routeing guide did not apply as the ticket was cheaper than the Leicester ticket.

Makes a change from 'the Routeing Guide does not apply to journeys with EMT'

 

[Ferret]

NO. They did nothing to withdraw the ticket, just said we will report you for fare evasion.

Hmmmm, I take back all I said. What was this TM hoping to use as evidence to back up his report?! So, we are back to the training provided by EMT being inadequate.

 

[pjnathanail]

It sounds like he has mixed it up with the fares check rule.
No excuse for withdrawing it without a receipt though.

 

[reb0118]

No excuse for withdrawing it without a receipt though.

Ticket not withdrawn.

NO. They did nothing to withdraw the ticket, just said we will report you for fare evasion.

 

[RJ]

It sounds like he has mixed it up with the fares check rule.
No excuse for withdrawing it without a receipt though.

Even if they do withdraw the ticket, by the looks of things they don't actually know how to issue one correctly.

With me, their sorry excuse for a receipt was a zero fare excess which did not allow me to continue the journey as shown on the original ticket and had a reference number, so required the withdrawn ticket to be held in order to validate it. I directly stated to the RPO that it was going to cause me problems, but she claimed she'd done all she needed to. Predictably, it did cause problems later on in my journey.

I later got a letter from the HQ, all proud that their colleague stuck to the rules by issuing a receipt!

 

[185]

Well, you've all done better than me.

My last 9 journeys with EMT must have all been DOO, I haven't had one ticket checked yet.

 

[RJ]

Well, you've all done better than me.

My last 9 journeys with EMT must have all been DOO, I haven't had one ticket checked yet.

Between London and Leicester perchance? I find the TMs don't bother with ticket checks on the evening stopping services during the week, or at all on Sundays.

 

[telstarbox]

He said the routeing guide did not apply as the ticket was cheaper than the Leicester ticket.

If a TM said this to me I'd be tempted to reply "So why do you think I'm using it then?"

 

[Qwerty133]

Between London and Leicester perchance? I find the TMs don't bother with ticket checks on the evening stopping services during the week, or at all on Sundays.

some train managers probably wouldn'd be able to say what colour the seats are in standard with how often they enter it and others will get through the whole train checking tickets between long eaton and east midlands parkway

 

[OwlMan]

I used the return portion today - same train manager - this time he lokked at me, smiled and said "thank you sir" and carried on down the train. Presumably he had received notification that the ticket was valid

Peter

 

[185]

Between London and Leicester perchance? I find the TMs don't bother with ticket checks on the evening stopping services during the week, or at all on Sundays.

Quite a variety, actually. Sheffield-Man, Liverpool-Man and twice all the way from Sheffield-London! None of the gatelines were on at St P, either.

 

[jon0844]

RJ has had them all sacked or sent away for 'retraining' in a white room somewhere...

 

[RJ]

From when various management grade HQ staff with years of experience have been completely stumped by the revelation that there are rules that permit what I do, I don't expect any of their staff to get into trouble simply for getting it wrong! It's what follows that I expect to be dealt with - straying beyond the authority bestowed upon them, trying to take money off passengers that they're not entitled to collect and things like routinely issuing illegitimate Penalty Fares that I will expose and expect to be addressed.

I also travelled yesterday on the usual 11:25 ex St Pancras (despite my train to St Pancras being delayed like it is every friggin' Monday morning!) and the TM was quite content to only look at the London Thameslink to Kentish Town coupon I handed over, mark it cheerfully and move on. I was on a 4 way split involving a Zone 2-4 Travelcard on Oyster.

I've devised a way to reduce the chance of on board staff questioning my choice of tickets. At some point, EMT will twig what this is and hopefully play along once they work out what they're expected to do. I trialled it for the first time yesterday and it went swimmingly so fingers crossed, this will allow me to have a more peaceful journey in future.

 

[jon0844]

I've devised a way to reduce the chance of on board staff questioning my choice of tickets.

So you finally got that roll of ticket stock and a printer to make your own ALRs?

 

[michael769]

Nahhh it's an "I am RJ" badge.

 

[jon0844]

Nahhh it's an "I am RJ" badge.

Wouldn't it be funny if someone mass produced these! That would really confuse TMs all over the country!!

 

[CallySleeper]

Here it is: