EMT 222's Liverpool - Nottingham after Timetable Change

[ukrob]

Any news on this after the trials earlier in the year? When that was happening we were informed it was for 'summer weekends'. With the summer timetable about to come into force, any news on this?

 

[MCR247]

i doubt that they'll have enough,unless the swap some 4/5car diagrams for HSTs

 

[ukrob]

i doubt that they'll have enough,unless the swap some 4/5car diagrams for HSTs

If that was the case then they wouldn't have tried it or arranged for SDO boards to be installed along the whole route surely.

 

[MCR247]

thinking about it they might be, as they've been fine without 104, so maybe they'll have a few spare, but not that much

 

[222001]

i doubt that they'll have enough,unless the swap some 4/5car diagrams for HSTs

They have a lot spare on Saturday/Sunday - so they say anyway. This is why a Meridian goes to York or Scarborough and sits around there all day Saturday (5 car) and Sunday (7 car). If one did go in service I think it would be Nottingham-Liverpool only.

Also they did use a 7 car Meridian between Nottingham and Liverpool to provide extra capacity for the Grand National.

 

[MCR247]

They have a lot spare on Saturday/Sunday - so they say anyway. This is why a Meridian goes to York or Scarborough and sits around there all day Saturday (5 car) and Sunday (7 car). If one did go in service I think it would be Nottingham-Liverpool only.

Also they did use a 7 car Meridian between Nottingham and Liverpool to provide extra capacity for the Grand National.

Wasnt that a 5 car??

 

[ukrob]

Wasnt that a 5 car??

No, 7.

 

[222001]

Yep 7 car. 222005 was used - http://mark5812.fotopic.net/p57298416.html

 

[bluenoxid]

It doesn't appear to be a permanent fixture to the timetable. I think it is an opportunity to add some flexibility when major events occur and trains are free.

 

[WillPS]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - put 158s on Corby - London and let the Pioneers and Meridians run Liverpool - Nottingham (- Norwich). Just because a route is 'new' doesn't mean it needs new stock, and from what I hear Corby runs are very lightly loaded.

 

[MCR247]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - put 158s on Corby - London and let the Pioneers and Meridians run Liverpool - Nottingham (- Norwich). Just because a route is 'new' doesn't mean it needs new stock, and from what I hear Corby runs are very lightly loaded.

But having 90mph stock on the MML would slow everything down, and even if it was on the slows, it'd still be overtaken by 222s/HSTs

 

[The Planner]

Even worse when a 158 has a 90mph max, you would never get a fast line path.

 

[222001]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - put 158s on Corby - London and let the Pioneers and Meridians run Liverpool - Nottingham (- Norwich). Just because a route is 'new' doesn't mean it needs new stock, and from what I hear Corby runs are very lightly loaded.

The problem is that it can get very crowded at peak times past Kettering.

They are using Meridians for Kettering to Corby shuttles throughout the day though - now that really does need a 158!

 

[Aictos]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - put 158s on Corby - London and let the Pioneers and Meridians run Liverpool - Nottingham (- Norwich).

That will never happen, simply because the 222s will be running at a lower speed then the Sprinters which include 156s, 158s, 170s etc....between Peterborough and Norwich.

If the route got upgraded then yes I would like to see 222s on the Liverpool to Norwich route but only as part of a XC franchise together with the Birmingham to Stansted route.

Not to mention the 90mph top speed of the 158s, to be able to run successfully they should be running at 100mph which I don't know if it's feasible.

 

[WillPS]

An upgrade of the sort your speak of is not forthcoming; to remove the restrictions would require a fairly large amount of civil engineering beneath the track bed.

Even though I'm definitely not of the opinion that this is the best idea, it does add some weight to the splitting at Nottingham/Sheffield arguement.

 

[222001]

To be honest I think 158s are going to be the only sort of train operting on the Liverpool-Norwich route for the next 6 years except for special occasions.
What I think will happen is that when the EMT franchise comes up for renewal in 2015 a new train order for Liverpool-Norwich will be in the contract which will displace the 158s for other more local services. By that time the MML SHOULD be electrified which could see the running of 222s on the Nottingham to Liverpool portion.

 

[alex57601]

To be honest I think 158s are going to be the only sort of train operting on the Liverpool-Norwich route for the next 6 years except for special occasions.
What I think will happen is that when the EMT franchise comes up for renewal in 2015 a new train order for Liverpool-Norwich will be in the contract which will displace the 158s for other more local services. By that time the MML SHOULD be electrified which could see the running of 222s on the Nottingham to Liverpool portion.

I think any future DMU orders will depend on what the outcome is of the electrification study later this year. Here's a draft, but don't take it as gospel as I see a few of what's in the draft changing: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...tion strategy/network rus electrification.pdf

What routes get electrified will affect what gets ordered. Quite rightly, the order for 200 new vehicles was deferred so expect a big announcement soon.

 

[222001]

Yes I was reading that earlier and it's quite interesting.

It mentions that the 222s will be freed up for use on other long distance express routes once the MML is electrified.

 

[gordonthemoron]

are there enough to be used by TPE?

 

[222001]

are there enough to be used by TPE?

Well I suppose once the MML is fully electrified there will be 27 to go around. TPE are meant to be part of the order for 200 new carriages though but this could change once the electrification decisions have been made.
Trying to predict where there Meridians will end up at this point is almost impossible. There are lots of options including XC - run them to Cardiff to release some Turbostars or run the 7 car Meridians the main XC route to make more double Voyagers. Then there is them staying with EMT on Liverpool-Norwich which would release a load of 158s for local services. Then there is FTPE (which could be under a different name by then) who could run them between Manchester and Glasgow. They could even be spread between these.
A question: Once the new order of Pendolinos arrive will this free up some Super Voyagers (that normally run under wires)?

 

[Geezertronic]

I would assume that an extra 4 Pendolino's (which is what I understand is on order) would only supplement Virgin Trains VHF services and would negate the need for the loco hauled service scenario if a Pendo or two is out of action. Bearing in mind that even before the yard accident they were already a Pendolino short due to the Grayrigg accident, increasing the fleet from 52 to 56 would be welcome indeed.

 

[alex57601]

Then there is FTPE (which could be under a different name by then) who could run them between Manchester and Glasgow.

They may not even need them if Manchester-Preston is electrified, and instead will want new-build EMUs.