EMR - Something new is coming

[Tracked]

Is he the driver or the guard?

 

[beano900]

I was hoping the ‘something new’ was going to be the return of the missing two carriages on the 0701 to Liverpool but I guess that wouldn’t be anything to show off about!

 

[StewLane]

Announcing the start of the process to refurbish the 360’s would have been worth the fuss, not just a mascot

 

[High Dyke]

Perhaps it was to announce that services between Nottingham and Grantham are replaced by road transport this weekend, due to engineering work?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I think the 'new' is that you twit a picture of you standing next to 'miles' and there is a prize for the best one.

Sorry for not being totally accurate, it went straight through me and I've already dismissed it to history. Like many posters I would prefer it of they got their err stuff together first regarding service frequencies on my local route - and the other issues raised by others eg capacity and unit reliability.

Marketing a service before the product is fixed is counter-productive.

 

[GoneSouth]

let us not forget we also lost our creme de la creme station in London to Europe

I’m pleased to inform you that St Pancras station is still located in London

And let’s be fair, before it served Europe and had all the restoration work done, it was an abysmal place. You didn’t lose your creme de La creme station, it was filthy, run down and seedy.

It is a long walk to the EMT platforms though

 

[Deltafoxtrot87]

Perhaps it was to announce that services between Nottingham and Grantham are replaced by road transport this weekend, due to engineering work?

And, yesterday, there was almost no trains between Grantham and Skegness due to a shortage of drivers.

 

[STINT47]

And, yesterday, there was almost no trains between Grantham and Skegness due to a shortage of drivers.

And a lot of Skegness trains are cancelled again today. Most were removed from the timetable yesterday evening so no delay repay or impact on EMRs PRM.

On the plus side any passengers impacted can get a selfi with Miles now so swings and roundabouts

 

[ChrisC]

I certainly don’t think anything new is coming to the regional side of EMR.

I have to laugh to myself as I travel up the Robin Hood Line to Worksop. On almost every station there are large posters with a photo of a Class 170 and words on the lines of ‘New trains are being introduced on this route.’ The unrefurbished 170’s have now arrived and apart from being a bit tatty inside they are an improvement in terms of comfort. However, they are certainly not new trains as they are now over 20 years old. They are not even new to the route as they ran on the line over 15 years ago in Central Trains days. Perhaps a poster saying better and more comfortable trains will be introduced on this route. They could have just said we are giving you your old trains back that we took away 15 years ago, now that the West Midlands don’t want them any more as they are getting new trains.

 

[Llandudno]

I certainly don’t think anything new is coming to the regional side of EMR.

I have to laugh to myself as I travel up the Robin Hood Line to Worksop. On almost every station there are large posters with a photo of a Class 170 and words on the lines of ‘New trains are being introduced on this route.’ The unrefurbished 170’s have now arrived and apart from being a bit tatty inside they are an improvement in terms of comfort. However, they are certainly not new trains as they are now over 20 years old. They are not even new to the route as they ran on the line over 15 years ago in Central Trains days. Perhaps a poster saying better and more comfortable trains will be introduced on this route. They could have just said we are giving you your old trains back that we took away 15 years ago, now that the West Midlands don’t want them any more as they are getting new trains.

‘New Trains are being introduced on this route’ - one for the Advertising Standards Agency perhaps…?

Mind you most of EMR’s Regional timetables would fall foul of the ASA!

 

[Master29]

New or more stock for the Norwich to Liverpool Route. We can all at least dream. Btw a large cuboid Mr Blobby or Barney isn't my idea of marketing, more like a form of suicide but if it works...

 

[Deltafoxtrot87]

I certainly don’t think anything new is coming to the regional side of EMR.

I have to laugh to myself as I travel up the Robin Hood Line to Worksop. On almost every station there are large posters with a photo of a Class 170 and words on the lines of ‘New trains are being introduced on this route.’ The unrefurbished 170’s have now arrived and apart from being a bit tatty inside they are an improvement in terms of comfort. However, they are certainly not new trains as they are now over 20 years old. They are not even new to the route as they ran on the line over 15 years ago in Central Trains days. Perhaps a poster saying better and more comfortable trains will be introduced on this route. They could have just said we are giving you your old trains back that we took away 15 years ago, now that the West Midlands don’t want them any more as they are getting new trains.

I agree that they are an improvement to a 156 but aren't really suitable for this line and are pretty grim and tatty inside. Also, in all the 170s there are posters saying that "a refresh is on the way" that have been there for ages yet no changes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Mar 2022 ==

And a lot of Skegness trains are cancelled again today. Most were removed from the timetable yesterday evening so no delay repay or impact on EMRs PRM.

On the plus side any passengers impacted can get a selfi with Miles now so swings and roundabouts

I'm sure that will make them completely forget about all the inconvenience caused.

 

[Starmill]

I certainly don’t think anything new is coming to the regional side of EMR.

I have to laugh to myself as I travel up the Robin Hood Line to Worksop. On almost every station there are large posters with a photo of a Class 170 and words on the lines of ‘New trains are being introduced on this route.’ The unrefurbished 170’s have now arrived and apart from being a bit tatty inside they are an improvement in terms of comfort. However, they are certainly not new trains as they are now over 20 years old. They are not even new to the route as they ran on the line over 15 years ago in Central Trains days. Perhaps a poster saying better and more comfortable trains will be introduced on this route. They could have just said we are giving you your old trains back that we took away 15 years ago, now that the West Midlands don’t want them any more as they are getting new trains.

Are you sure that poster doesn't say 'modern trains'?

 

[PeterC]

Just think of it as a shopping centre with a railway running into it.

I can guarantee I’ve walked from the Pret behind the gateline to the country end of the platforms quicker then anyone else on here .

Great shopping centre shame about the trains

 

[Fyldeboy]

EMR - Something new is coming​

On time trains, with the right number of not-tatty seats

 

[ChrisC]

Are you sure that poster doesn't say 'modern trains'?

I now remember the words that are on the posters. ‘Modern trains, better journeys. We’re rolling out new trains on your route’.

So yes, it does say modern trains, but it does also imply new trains. That can be interpreted in a number of ways. Agreed they are more modern than the trains they replace but they are not new trains or even new to the route. They are different trains from those operating on the route in recent years and they haven’t been on the route since they were removed around 15 years ago.

 

[Starmill]

Strictly, the 170s can be described as 'modern' I think, including both the ones with the National Express Scot Rail and London Midland interiors. In the main it appears that their air conditioning and WiFi works well. They are also much more accessible than the trains they replace, the floor is lower and the doors wider. Nobody would say that they're up to scratch however, they are really very tatty inside and this absolutely needs to be dealt with. I do understand their approach however - if they're going to fit the 'Aurora' interior and seating then it'd be fairly wasteful to do any initial work. The same applies to the 360s. I do not know if EMR have signed contracts to have this work done yet - does anyone? If they haven't I don't think it can be regarded as confirmed until they do, but I'm grateful for any news I may have missed.

 

[High Dyke]

‘New Trains are being introduced on this route’ - one for the Advertising Standards Agency perhaps…?

Reminds of a time when a couple of HST power cars were heading north for a new life in Scotland. I commented to someone on the station "Oh, it's one of Scotland's brand new 40 year old trains "!

 

[Energy]

Feels very "let them eat cake" to me to introduce this while the 360s are running unrefurbished and often short formed, regional is short formed and its 170s are tatty and intercity isn't that much better, 180s aren't exactly doing great. Whoever decided to go ahead with this right now doesn't seem very in touch with the EMR service. I'm sure that thing will make customer on an overcrowded train happy...

Greater Anglia at least waited for the Stadlers to be in service before marketing with their hare, would have thought EMR would wait until its 810s are in service and its trains are mostly refurbished.

 

[43066]

Feels very "let them eat cake" to me to introduce this while the 360s are running unrefurbished and often short formed, regional is short formed and its 170s are tatty and intercity isn't that much better, 180s aren't exactly doing great. Whoever decided to go ahead with this right now doesn't seem very in touch with the EMR service. I'm sure that thing will make customer on an overcrowded train happy...

Greater Anglia at least waited for the Stadlers to be in service before marketing with their hare, would have thought EMR would wait until its 810s are in service and its trains are mostly refurbished.

The 180s are a good deal more reliable than they were, mostly because they tend not to be run in multiple anymore, which caused issues with the couplers. They must be about the most comfortable trains anywhere on the network!

 

[LowLevel]

Strictly, the 170s can be described as 'modern' I think, including both the ones with the National Express Scot Rail and London Midland interiors. In the main it appears that their air conditioning and WiFi works well. They are also much more accessible than the trains they replace, the floor is lower and the doors wider. Nobody would say that they're up to scratch however, they are really very tatty inside and this absolutely needs to be dealt with. I do understand their approach however - if they're going to fit the 'Aurora' interior and seating then it'd be fairly wasteful to do any initial work. The same applies to the 360s. I do not know if EMR have signed contracts to have this work done yet - does anyone? If they haven't I don't think it can be regarded as confirmed until they do, but I'm grateful for any news I may have missed.

Does the WiFi work? The ScotRail ones did when they first appeared but you got a ScotRail landing screen, I'll have to try it later.

Never found a 170/5 with working WiFi yet and 273 so rarely ventures off Etches Park it's hard to tell with that one.

 

[Starmill]

Does the WiFi work? The ScotRail ones did when they first appeared but you got a ScotRail landing screen, I'll have to try it later.

Never found a 170/5 with working WiFi yet and 273 so rarely ventures off Etches Park it's hard to tell with that one.

It definitely was working in 530 when I tried it - and almost to my surprise it actually did have the EMR login page and not the West Midlands Railway one!

 

[2192]

It's called Miles because of the extra miles you get free if the direct line is blocked between Leicester and Kettering.

 

[Skymonster]

Feels very "let them eat cake" to me to introduce this while the 360s are running unrefurbished and often short formed, regional is short formed and its 170s are tatty and intercity isn't that much better, 180s aren't exactly doing great. Whoever decided to go ahead with this right now doesn't seem very in touch with the EMR service.

EMR under Abellio has always been more about marketing froth than actually delivering improvements. The business seems to find the opportunity to repaint / vinyl trains, but not to improve things inside the trains for passengers. But there’s no point in painting lipstick on a pig. Since the franchise started almost three years ago, as far as I’m aware NO interiors have been done (despite promises), no wifi has been installed on the existing fleet (despite promises all trains would have it), the promise of new waiting areas and lounges at St Pancras with more seats hasn’t been fulfilled yet (indeed last time I checked EMR still hadn’t bothered to reopen its first class lounges which were closed at the start of the pandemic despite other operators managing to do do), capacity has been challenged with short forms endemic and yet trains have been released to Northern while replacements have not been so forthcoming. And yet the business also finds the time for publicity stunts like Miles, and plenty of advertising. Now it seems like trains are being readily dropped from the timetable the day before, exploiting the changed NRCoT while messing up customer’s travel without recompense. There are reports that the Avanti IEPs are delayed, and if that’s correct I suspect East Midlands passengers will have to put up with the worn out interiors of the 222s for longer than originally stated too. I have also heard unconfirmed whispers that the 180s are staying longer as there won’t be enough 810s - oh joy (not) - and the only reason they are performing reasonably is that only one or two are needed each day (50% availability shouldn’t be too hard). Really, Imsaid long ago Abellio should be stripped of the East Midlands franchise and nothing has improved to make me revise that opinion.

 

[Wolfie]

Strictly, the 170s can be described as 'modern' I think, including both the ones with the National Express Scot Rail and London Midland interiors. In the main it appears that their air conditioning and WiFi works well. They are also much more accessible than the trains they replace, the floor is lower and the doors wider. Nobody would say that they're up to scratch however, they are really very tatty inside and this absolutely needs to be dealt with. I do understand their approach however - if they're going to fit the 'Aurora' interior and seating then it'd be fairly wasteful to do any initial work. The same applies to the 360s. I do not know if EMR have signed contracts to have this work done yet - does anyone? If they haven't I don't think it can be regarded as confirmed until they do, but I'm grateful for any news I may have missed.

The EMR-liveried 170s still with WMR are obviously not in the first flush of youth but certainly aren't tatty.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Mar 2022 ==

It definitely was working in 530 when I tried it - and almost to my surprise it actually did have the EMR login page and not the West Midlands Railway one!

One thing that LNWR/WMR are done is make on-train WiFi much more reliable.

 

[43066]

EMR under Abellio has always been more about marketing froth than actually delivering improvements. The business seems to find the opportunity to repaint / vinyl trains, but not to improve things inside the trains for passengers. But there’s no point in painting lipstick on a pig. Since the franchise started almost three years ago, as far as I’m aware NO interiors have been done (despite promises), no wifi has been installed on the existing fleet (despite promises all trains would have it), the promise of new waiting areas and lounges at St Pancras with more seats hasn’t been fulfilled yet (indeed last time I checked EMR still hadn’t bothered to reopen its first class lounges which were closed at the start of the pandemic despite other operators managing to do do), capacity has been challenged with short forms endemic and yet trains have been released to Northern while replacements have not been so forthcoming. And yet the business also finds the time for publicity stunts like Miles, and plenty of advertising. Now it seems like trains are being readily dropped from the timetable the day before, exploiting the changed NRCoT while messing up customer’s travel without recompense. There are reports that the Avanti IEPs are delayed, and if that’s correct I suspect East Midlands passengers will have to put up with the worn out interiors of the 222s for longer than originally stated too. I have also heard unconfirmed whispers that the 180s are staying longer as there won’t be enough 810s - oh joy (not) - and the only reason they are performing reasonably is that only one or two are needed each day (50% availability shouldn’t be too hard). Really, Imsaid long ago Abellio should be stripped of the East Midlands franchise and nothing has improved to make me revise that opinion.

How much of that is down to the operator and how much is down to the DfT, Covid related staff shortages or otherwise outside EMR’s control?

 

[Watershed]

How much of that is down to the operator and how much is down to the DfT, Covid related staff shortages or otherwise outside EMR’s control?

The issues to do with day-to-day unreliability are mostly outside their direct control, although many are squarely within the control of the industry as a whole. And either way, there seems to be no acknowledgment that things are bad, let alone a promise that they will improve (or by when). It gives a really poor impression advertising fancy mascots when you can't even get the basics right.

Obviously stripping the franchise isn't going to change anything - if anything, it could make things worse, as seen at Northern. But that doesn't mean things should just continue as they are.

 

[43066]

The issues to do with day-to-day unreliability are mostly outside their direct control, although many are squarely within the control of the industry as a whole. And either way, there seems to be no acknowledgment that things are bad, let alone a promise that they will improve (or by when). It gives a really poor impression advertising fancy mascots when you can't even get the basics right.

Obviously stripping the franchise isn't going to change anything - if anything, it could make things worse, as seen at Northern. But that doesn't mean things should just continue as they are.

Thing is it’s not as if the people doing the advertising are doing that instead of refurbishing units or going out and working trains. These things are done in parallel rather than in series and getting people back onto the railway via advertising is also something that needs to be done. Blaming the operator and complaining about advertising when the service is (admittedly) below par rather misses that point. I realise you are aware of this, but clearly others are not.

I do get the impression the regional bit is rather worse than the Intercity/Connect bit at the moment.

 

[Failed Unit]

The issues to do with day-to-day unreliability are mostly outside their direct control, although many are squarely within the control of the industry as a whole. And either way, there seems to be no acknowledgment that things are bad, let alone a promise that they will improve (or by when). It gives a really poor impression advertising fancy mascots when you can't even get the basics right.

Obviously stripping the franchise isn't going to change anything - if anything, it could make things worse, as seen at Northern. But that doesn't mean things should just continue as they are.

When you look at EMR and the rolling stock the have already got hit twice.

Replace the 153s? - No problem use the 156s coming away from Greater Anglia. Oh the new trains don't work, sorry EMR you are stuck with the 153s until the Flirts get fixed.
Replace the 156s? - No problem, WMR decided to bid for total fleet replacement? What the new trains doing work, oh well you keep the 156s until they do.

Yes they have got some 170s, but then some 156s have gone to Northern. Chuck in Covid and driver training a lot is outside their control. However I am sure some things they could have done better themselves. As a passenger it is the lack of a roadmap for improvement that is more concerning. Granted they may not know, but we had the hope of hourly clockface services in Lincolnshire, demand is increasing but will they improvements ever happen? Who knows. Can they actually plan to complete them? Probably not as I don't think anyone knows when the 170s will come over.

 

[Watershed]

Thing is it’s not as if the people doing the advertising are doing that instead of refurbishing units or going out and working trains. These things are done in parallel rather than in series and getting people back onto the railway via advertising is also something that needs to be done. Blaming the operator and complaining about advertising when the service is (admittedly) below par rather misses that point. I realise you are aware of this, but clearly others are not.

Indeed but really, they shouldn't be starting new ad campaigns when the service is so shocking. If there must be a campaign, it should be "we're sorry - but we're going to make it better and fix it". There just seems to be a complete lack of awareness of the optics of the whole thing.

There is also no need to advertise for additional leisure traffic - that has returned quite of its own accord. Rather, they should be looking into things like a trial of a targeted reduction in Off-Peak restrictions to encourage commuters and business travellers. But again, nothing - just the vain hope that people will return with the same fares (increased by several percent) as before.

I do get the impression the regional bit is rather worse than the Intercity/Connect bit at the moment.

Absolutely, it's night and day. It's not perfect, but the position it's in is much better.