EMR London terminal capacity

[py_megapixel]

Replying here to avoid derailing the EMR new stock thread

At one time, there was talk of EMR using one of the current Eurostar platforms, but now they talk about more platforms for Eurostar.

Is Eurostar actually using all of its platform capacity at the moment? The passenger capacity restriction for Eurostar at the moment is the passport control process, not the actual number of seats available, so it seems unlikely that Eurostar would need any more platform capacity than it already has for the foreseeable future.

Probably a stupid question, but could EMR use a different terminus for additional capacity? King's Cross?

I'm not totally sure it's possible for trains from the midland main line to terminate elsewhere in London, short of sending them through the Thameslink core, which is clearly ridiculous and utterly infeasible. Have they use KGX in the past e.g. in times of disruption?

 

[Trainman40083]

Replying here to avoid derailing the EMR new stock thread


Is Eurostar actually using all of its platform capacity at the moment? The passenger capacity restriction for Eurostar at the moment is the passport control process, not the actual number of seats available, so it seems unlikely that Eurostar would need any more platform capacity than it already has for the foreseeable future.


I'm not totally sure it's possible for trains from the midland main line to terminate elsewhere in London, short of sending them through the Thameslink core, which is clearly ridiculous and utterly infeasible. Have they use KGX in the past e.g. in times of disruption?

But there is talk of additional operators to Eurostar, running channel tunnel services. I am not sure any more platforms can be fitted in, to the existing envelope. I doubt EMR could ever use Kings Cross station...always seems pretty full to me. . I guess Thameslink trains could extend to Corby. Failing that, you'd be looking at extra platforms on the side of St Pancras. Of course, the original plan would have been users from Derby/Nottingham and northwards use HS2 Eastern leg

 

[JonathanH]

Probably a stupid question, but could EMR use a different terminus for additional capacity? King's Cross?

Why do they need additional platform capacity? There are sufficient platforms at St Pancras for six trains an hour, and no capacity on the line ahead for more EMR trains. The new trains are designed to match the platform length.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Have they use KGX in the past e.g. in times of disruption?

Can't think of any instances of that. In any case, no route possible without a substantial increase in journey time.
Back in the 1980s, there were a few engineering diversions of Midland mainline services via Bedford-Bletchley to Euston (one of which I caught - photos somewhere), but again with a massive time penalty over the ~35 mins between Bedford and St P.

 

[Killingworth]

Why do they need additional platform capacity? There are sufficient platforms at St Pancras for six trains an hour, and no capacity on the line ahead for more EMR trains. The new trains are designed to match the platform length.

Quite. How do you add train length capacity if line capacity is fully utilised?

If EMR attracted 50% incresad demand over the next 10-15 years how could it be satisfied? They probably wouldn't have enough roilling stock either and a further add on order may not be possible.

 

[Trainman40083]

Quite. How do you add train length capacity if line capacity is fully utilised?

If EMR attracted 50% incresad demand over the next 10-15 years how could it be satisfied? They probably wouldn't have enough roilling stock either and a further add on order may not be possible.

Wasn't that the point of the planned digital signalling, expected to cover the Midland Mainline? In that you can (supposedly) get more capacity by trains running closer together with in cab signalling.

 

[py_megapixel]

But there is talk of additional operators to Eurostar, running channel tunnel services.

I don't think more services from STP are realistic without additional passport control capacity though

 

[Trainman40083]

I don't think more services from STP are realistic without additional passport control capacity though

I guess the study being carried out will come up with solutions....all change at Stratford International and walk

 

[miklcct]

Why do they need additional platform capacity? There are sufficient platforms at St Pancras for six trains an hour, and no capacity on the line ahead for more EMR trains. The new trains are designed to match the platform length.

There is clearly insufficient platform capacity at St Pancras when the Thameslink core is unavailable.

When the core operates normally, there are 4 Thameslink regional trains per hour to Bedford, and 6 Thameslink suburban trains per hour to Luton and St Albans.

When the core is closed, the service is degraded to 2 Thameslink regional trains per hour and 2 Thameslink suburban trains per hour, because there is only one spare platform available. The Intercity uses 2 platforms and the Connect uses 1 platform, leaving only 1 platform for displaced Thameslink services.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wasn't that the point of the planned digital signalling, expected to cover the Midland Mainline? In that you can (supposedly) get more capacity by trains running closer together with in cab signalling.

Nope.

Cab signalling with Automatic Train Operation (ATO) gives additional capacity on intensively worked, high frequency railways - see Thameslink core, Elizabeth Line core, and most of the underground. It gives little capacity benefit on lower frequency routes.

The capacity issue on the Midland Main Line is the various stopping patterns of services using the fast lines between West Hampstead and Leicester, which are needed to adequately serve the various markets on the line. Extra EMR platforms at St Pancras do nothing to resolve that.

 

[cslusarc]

If more capacity on the Midland Mainline is needed then EMR should run more 10-car Meridian (or class 810) diagrams, even if it requires splitting/joining at somewhere like East Midland Parkway.

 

[Magdalia]

We have done this before, and very recently.

Alternative Destinations for MML Trains in London

Seeing the discussion about the limitations placed upon the Midland Mainline (MML) in London by the lack of platform capacity at St Pancras, are there other destinations that trains could run to instead? (I am thinking more of the Corby EMUs rather than the longer distance stock) From the WCML...

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