EMR Class 360's

[43096]

I was a bit surprised when I read this - never knew there was an electrified track between Northampton and the MML?

Of course, and in danger of veering off topic, if East-West Rail electrified Bedford-Bletchley there would be such a link.

 

[delticdave]

From what I’ve read (can’t remember if it’s in rail or another magazine) a large bulk of the maintenance will be carried out at Kings Heath alongside the LNR fleet, so it seems Siemens will be heavily involved in the maintenance of the 360s.

I was a bit surprised when I read this - never knew there was an electrified track between Northampton and the MML?

It might be possible to leave the MML & divert to Farringdon. reverse there & go the the GN, reverse again near Hornsey & use the electrified link to the North London line to Willesden & beyond....
There is, of course the link between the Goblin & the MML but not enough wiring (& linespeeds too low) to coast through.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There's not been evidence of a great deal of logical thought applied to various aspects of the MML electrification, but perhaps Siemans wanted the 360 work at Northampton, to replace that lost when the 350/2s are returned to the lessors.

 

[OTRail]

There's not been evidence of a great deal of logical thought applied to various aspects of the MML electrification, but perhaps Siemans wanted the 360 work at Northampton, to replace that lost when the 350/2s are returned to the lessors.

It works better for EMR as well as both LNR and EMR are owned by Abellio. Kings Heath is also a well established TMD for Desiro work so I can see why some work will be carried out there.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I knew this, but not that Siemens don’t maintain them at all anymore. That might explain the failed exterior and interior PIS displays I’ve seen on the few units I’ve been on in the last few months.

I've not been on one for 7 months, so I wouldn't know, but that's surprising because the PIS on those trains is probably the best out there in terms of reliability. In about 15 years on them I think I've come across a broken one twice, and then one of them was a smashed screen which was probably the result of vandalism.

 

[Class 170101]

That isn’t.

But that report is ‘parially’ correct.

Routine maintenance will be at Bedford. Kings Heath will be for higher levels of maintenance only. Perhaps one pair will make the trip each week.

It might be possible to leave the MML & divert to Farringdon. reverse there & go the the GN, reverse again near Hornsey & use the electrified link to the North London line to Willesden & beyond....
There is, of course the link between the Goblin & the MML but not enough wiring (& linespeeds too low) to coast through.

For Clarity the electrified would be Bedford to St Pancras Low Level, reverse, Finsbury Park, Reverse, Kings Cross Incline then either via Primrose Hill or Gospel Oak and City Lines to the WCML thence to Northampton.

Of course when the bid was being compiled there was talk of Bedford to Bletchley wiring as part of East, West Rail or the link between the MML and the T&H being wired so the trains could have reversed at Upper Holloway Goods Loop to reach Northampton instead.

 

[LowLevel]

It does indeed, albeit only one of them (the one in the rear unit) is “lead” and in charge of the dispatch process. Not sure if that will be changed with the twelve car 360 formations (although they aren’t much longer then ten car meridians).

That procedure is under negotiation between EMR and the RMT at the moment. EMR's desired intention is to have one guard (train manager or senior conductor) per train regardless of formation on class 360 and 170. Personally I don't have an issue with that

 

[RailWonderer]

I've not been on one for 7 months, so I wouldn't know, but that's surprising because the PIS on those trains is probably the best out there in terms of reliability. In about 15 years on them I think I've come across a broken one twice, and then one of them was a smashed screen which was probably the result of vandalism.

One of them might have been down to the driver not updating the PIS, it was just displaying the wrong destination; one of the outside displays was pixellated, and an interior display as well. A couple of years back one was showing a software error message on the outside. One the other one I went on, the inside PIS I think was manually turned off. Not a disaster but just shows GA care considerably less about them now.

 

[OTRail]

One of them might have been down to the driver not updating the PIS, it was just displaying the wrong destination; one of the outside displays was pixellated, and an interior display as well. A couple of years back one was showing a software error message on the outside. One the other one I went on, the inside PIS I think was manually turned off. Not a disaster but just shows GA care considerably less about them now.

Their condition has been appalling since the NXEA days - just as well EMR will be giving them a proper refurbishment/repaint as their interior and exterior is very reminiscent of when they were delivered to FGE in 2003/4!

 

[Bald Rick]

For Clarity the electrified would be Bedford to St Pancras Low Level, reverse, Finsbury Park, Reverse, Kings Cross Incline then either via Primrose Hill or Gospel Oak and City Lines to the WCML thence to Northampton.

Of course when the bid was being compiled there was talk of Bedford to Bletchley wiring as part of East, West Rail or the link between the MML and the T&H being wired so the trains could have reversed at Upper Holloway Goods Loop to reach Northampton instead.

They’ll be hauled across the Bedford - Bletchley.

 

[D365]

They’ll be hauled across the Bedford - Bletchley.

Glad I’m not the only one who sees the sensible option!

 

[221101 Voyager]

Glad I’m not the only one who sees the sensible option!

Same here. Hopefully I'll be able to get to see some 360s when on a move like this.

 

[Chiltern006]

are the /2s coming over to emr aswell and reformed?

 

[Domh245]

No

 

[D365]

are the /2s coming over to emr aswell and reformed?

Nope. Angel Trains has nothing to do with the Class 360/2s.

 

[Class 170101]

They’ll be hauled across the Bedford - Bletchley.

Glad I’m not the only one who sees the sensible option!

Same here. Hopefully I'll be able to get to see some 360s when on a move like this.

Don't think I didn't see the obvious option however there is no guarantee that Abellio will be able to find an operator with locos to drag them from Bedford to Northampton.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Don't think I didn't see the obvious option however there is no guarantee that Abellio will be able to find an operator with locos to drag them from Bedford to Northampton.

Erm. Do you really think it is a sensible option to drag electric trains around with a diesel ?
At the very least the engineers who are currently completing Kettering-Corby should have the ranks swelled, half going north to Sheffield and Nottingham, the other half starting at Bedford and heading for Didcot via Bletchley and Oxford.

In the meantime I am sure ROG could supply a 57/3 to shuttle the 360s over to Bletchley

 

[londonmidland]

Erm. Do you really think it is a sensible option to drag electric trains around with a diesel ?

Ideally we’d like the MML to be electrified throughout and connected with both the ECML and WCML for full electrification benefits. However until this happens, diesels will be required to drag electric trains. Also, it isn’t really viable to take a unit via the world just so it can stay under the wires. There’s potentially lots of issues with that including pathing, clearance, route knowledge etc.

 

[JonathanH]

Don't think I didn't see the obvious option however there is no guarantee that Abellio will be able to find an operator with locos to drag them from Bedford to Northampton.

Huh? Rail Operations Group's raison d'etre is to send locomotives from Leicester to whereever they are needed to haul EMUs around. They only need to be dragged from Bedford to Bletchley. Leicester to Bedford (or Kettering I guess) is only a short trip.

Also, it isn’t really viable to take a unit via the world just so it can stay under the wires.

Again, it seems it is entirely viable to do such things as witnessed by the Norwich to Stratford to Cambridge to Hornsey 745 trips (which is of course partly about clearance). Didn't 319s used to haul 317s round South London to get them from the MML to Hornsey.

 

[Class 170101]

Huh? Rail Operations Group's raison d'etre is to send locomotives from Leicester to whereever they are needed to haul EMUs around. They only need to be dragged from Bedford to Bletchley. Leicester to Bedford (or Kettering I guess) is only a short trip.

Remember there are only so many locos and drivers that ROG (or any other operator) can call upon.
They would probably be dragged all the way due to the short distance between Bletchley and Northampton and a double reversal anyway, at Bedford and Bletchley.

 

[JonathanH]

Remember there are only so many locos and drivers that ROG (or any other operator) can call upon.
They would probably be dragged all the way due to the short distance between Bletchley and Northampton and a double reversal anyway, at Bedford and Bletchley.

GBRf appear to be finding locomotives and drivers to get the 360s from Ilford to Northampton on a weekly basis at the moment. It seems to me that there are probably more locomotives available than units to drag at the moment.

Dragging the units from the sidings at Kettering rather than Cauldwell Walk might avoid a reversal at Bedford.

 

[43096]

Remember there are only so many locos and drivers that ROG (or any other operator) can call upon.
They would probably be dragged all the way due to the short distance between Bletchley and Northampton and a double reversal anyway, at Bedford and Bletchley.

Wouldn't it be easiest to drag (Kettering-)Bedford-Bletchley, then uncouple the dragging loco, pan up and off to Northampton under their own power? No faffing about with running round then.

 

[Class 170101]

Wouldn't it be easiest to drag (Kettering-)Bedford-Bletchley, then uncouple the dragging loco, pan up and off to Northampton under their own power? No faffing about with running round then.

You would think so but then Class 360s have been going to / from Ilford EMUD to Northampton Kings Heath Depot with drags and this route is electrified and direct (ie no changing ends needed en-route).

 

[Merle Haggard]

That procedure is under negotiation between EMR and the RMT at the moment. EMR's desired intention is to have one guard (train manager or senior conductor) per train regardless of formation on class 360 and 170. Personally I don't have an issue with that

Although perhaps it's a little off topic, at the moment Corby and Wellingborough (and, I think but not sure, Kettering) are all open stations. It has been said that a single guard on 3 x 4 cars with no connecting vestibules is already the case and works fine with class 319s on London Northwestern, but LNw has, generally, barriered stations.

Corby-Kettering is a popular journey with 'bus competition - wonder how ticketless travel will be avoided?

Edited for typos

 

[43096]

Getting back on topic, 360104 is on its way back to Ilford: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03334/2020-10-10/detailed

Path in for unit #16 tomorrow: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62048/2020-10-11/detailed

Pick one of 360101/109/110/115/117/119!

 

[WVL14]

360101 ends at Colchester tonight
360109 at Ilford (not allocated)
360110 at Clacton (not allocated)
360115 ends at Ilford tonight
360117 at Clacton (not allocated)
360119 at Ilford (not allocated)

So either 109, 115 or 119 tomorrow

 

[Supercoss]

Siding space for a 4 car has been booked for last week in October/ first week in November arrival
at Cricklewood depot for a class 360, the new east side A to E group of sidings furthest from mainline

 

[Alfie1014]

Siding space for a 4 car has been booked for last week in October/ first week in November arrival
at Cricklewood depot for a class 360, the new east side A to E group of sidings furthest from mainline

Which would align with supposed introduction of class 720s on the Southend Victoria services! We shall see?

 

[OTRail]

Does anyone know where the 360s will be repainted/refurbished? Or has that not been confirmed yet?

 

[Ethan1852]

Does anyone know where the 360s will be repainted/refurbished? Or has that not been confirmed yet?

I don't think it has been confirmed yet.