EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[Potteries 323]

103 seems to be in and out the depot quite frequently. Last seen in service on Sunday 5th July where it failed on 1B41

I think 222605 left Widnes Transport Tech yesterday for Central Rivers as there was a movement from Widnes Transport Tech and that was the only one there.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Before Covid (go give an idea of when) I think I recall that there was mention on this Forum that Virgin Voyagers ran with one engine out for the purpose of fuel economy. Perhaps they were de-rated later.

 

[yorksrob]

Some interesting ideas suggested by Green Signals expert Richard Bowker to remedy the current situation with the 222's including:
1. Seek additional maintenance from Alstom Central Rivers
2. Separate maintenance for 810's and 222's
3. Try and get as many 222's into traffic - though arguably this is why they are falling apart - not getting enough down time for repairs.
4. Hire in some ex Virgin 221's in storage to cover for both 222's needing repair and the fragile Class 810 fleet.
5. Talk to Scotrail and try to agree a postponement of unit transfers until the 810's can be sorted out.

All of which he claims requires high level involvement from all parties concerned and needs to be led by the Rail minister.

Link to the podcast on youtube is here:

Richard Bowker is right. EMR has been subject to various bad decisions by central Government.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The decline in 222 reliability coincided with Hitachi taking over their maintenance.
Trains supplied by Hitachi are years late and don't work reliably when they do arrive.
Logically, shouldn't Hitachi be responsible for solving the problems they themselves have created?
I think that Hitachi, rather than the tax-payer, should be funding the interim costs - for instance, hiring 221s and staff training - resulting from their failures. Who says I'm not an optimist?

 

[HST43277]

What about the ex Avanti Voyagers that are in storage? Would they be of some use to EMR?

 

[liamf656]

What about the ex Avanti Voyagers that are in storage? Would they be of some use to EMR?

Discussed here

Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 810 for EMR?

Former Transport Secretary 1784757354 In theory there are 6 stored 221s but haven't Cross Country applied to take at least some of them? When the DfT can get round to considering it, of course. The latest RAIL magazine has just dropped and it has an item that says the 6x off lease 221s are set...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[318266]

5. Talk to Scotrail and try to agree a postponement of unit transfers until the 810's can be sorted out.

I'm sure that the Scottish Government would happily continue use of their HSTs for another year (seeing as it would cost nothing more from a leasing perspective), in exchange for some politician concessions with regards to devolution of independence/constitutional referendums to the devolved governments... however I'd imagine that would not be forthcoming!

 

[jthjth]

I'm sure that the Scottish Government would happily continue use of their HSTs for another year (seeing as it would cost nothing more from a leasing perspective), in exchange for some politician concessions with regards to devolution of independence/constitutional referendums to the devolved governments... however I'd imagine that would not be forthcoming!

Don’t ASLEF want rid of the HSTs in Scotland because they offer little driver protection. Can’t see them being happy about them continuing in service.

 

[Railperf]

Am I right to be under the impression that XC 220/221s don't seem to have as many engine issues?

I was just looking at some older emails from a retired driver who worked both 221's and 390's. He said is was common for the 221's to come out of the depot on only four engines. On routes such as North Wales coast, it was not an issue on dry rails as the 221's could keep time on four out of five engines along there.

 

[Denis103]

Lumo got hauled over the coals for this. Will EMR? Supposedly 222102 on the 1902 StP Sheffield

 

[spotify95]

Lumo got hauled over the coals for this. Will EMR? Supposedly 222102 on the 1902 StP Sheffield View attachment 209210

That train should not have ran. Simple as.

Having only 1 or 2 toilets in operation would have been acceptable.
If it was a 360 doing the Corby to London route, it wouldn't have been as bad - from Kettering/Wellingborough to London is about an hour (and a little more for Corby)
But a 2 hour journey to Sheffield with no toilets? Not acceptable. That train should not have ran.

 

[jthjth]

That train should not have ran. Simple as.

Having only 1 or 2 toilets in operation would have been acceptable.
If it was a 360 doing the Corby to London route, it wouldn't have been as bad - from Kettering/Wellingborough to London is about an hour (and a little more for Corby)
But a 2 hour journey to Sheffield with no toilets? Not acceptable. That train should not have ran.

Couldn’t you get off at Leicester (about 1 hour) and then catch the next train to Sheffield half an hour later?

 

[liamf656]

Couldn’t you get off at Leicester (about 1 hour) and then catch the next train to Sheffield half an hour later?

No because the following Sheffield service has been removed as part of the temporarily reduced timetable

Lumo got hauled over the coals for this. Will EMR? Supposedly 222102 on the 1902 StP Sheffield

I have been told that wrong message was put out in error, and that the service lacked accessible toilet facilities (the space savers were working fine). Albeit, still not a good scenario for wheelchair users

 

[Merle Haggard]

Couldn’t you get off at Leicester (about 1 hour) and then catch the next train to Sheffield half an hour later?

On that service the next train is an hour later. The reduced timetable, introduced so that the maintenance iff trains could improve...

 

[38Cto15E]

At times, with all the walking and queue's at St Pancras you could do with using the Loo even before you board the 222.

 

[QSK19]

Couldn’t you get off at Leicester (about 1 hour) and then catch the next train to Sheffield half an hour later?

You shouldn’t have to do that, regardless of whether there is a train which follows soon(ish) afterwards. Having working toilets on an Intercity service - regardless of time length - is a must and to be expected.

As I’ve said before, people paying for an Intercity service deserve an Intercity product, even if it takes only 20 minutes end to end.

It’s quite frankly disgraceful that I (and no doubt many others) have felt compelled to book a journey from London to Nottingham using the ECML via Grantham - this should never even be a consideration, never mind actually booking the journey.

 

[liamf656]

I've been told that a 222 should be on a full 360 diagram tomorrow (12/08). Subject to the usual caveats

 

[JonathanH]

I've been told that a 222 should be on a full 360 diagram tomorrow (12/08). Subject to the usual caveats

222016 part of 10-car 1C05 0436 Sheffield to St Pancras International then splits from 222023 to work 1Y09 0749 St Pancras International to Corby. Earlier part of Corby diagram cancelled.

Looks like a 4-car formation out on two other Corby cycles as well, so reckon only eight 360s out today.

EDIT - actually make that seven 360s, as 360109 has just failed to leave St Pancras on 1Y01 0545 St Pancras International to Corby

 

[QSK19]

222016 part of 10-car 1C05 0436 Sheffield to St Pancras International then splits from 222023 to work 1Y09 0749 St Pancras International to Corby. Earlier part of Corby diagram cancelled.

Looks like a 4-car formation out on two other Corby cycles as well, so reckon only eight 360s out today.

EDIT - actually make that seven 360s, as 360109 has just failed to leave St Pancras on 1Y01 0545 St Pancras International to Corby

A bit embarrassing that it’s 109… EMR’s refurbished future of the Connect service and failed to run

 

[londonmidland]

222008 is sat at Long Eaton, with two trains stuck behind it, as it is suffering with engine issues.

 

[Trainman40083]

Looks like 222008 called it a day, at Loughborough and is now 5Z89 back to Derby.

 

[Qwerty133]

I've been told that a 222 should be on a full 360 diagram tomorrow (12/08). Subject to the usual caveats

Absolute joke. If there are spare 222s they should be used to boost capacity on the main services not to replace 360s. Corby coped quite well with 4 coaches per hour for several years and passengers from Bedford south also have the Thames link services.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Absolute joke. If there are spare 222s they should be used to boost capacity on the main services not to replace 360s. Corby coped quite well with 4 coaches per hour for several years and passengers from Bedford south also have the Thames link services.

As has already been mentioned EMR managed to get just one train from St Pancras all the way to Corby today.
Isn't that a joke as well?
And you've forgotten Wellingborough. Don't worry, though, I'm pretty sure from the current usage Wellingborough has forgotten trains.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Looks like a 4-car formation out on two other Corby cycles as well, so reckon only eight 360s out today.

EDIT - actually make that seven 360s, as 360109 has just failed to leave St Pancras on 1Y01 0545 St Pancras International to Corby

7 out of 21, albeit one of the fleet probably wont ever return to traffic but we ae still talking about 33.333% in service - out of a fleet of modern Siemens units which are pretty amazing. Perhaps they should dig a couple of pairs of 350/2s out of Long Marston.

 

[QSK19]

Perhaps they should dig a couple of pairs of 350/2s out of Long Marston.

Unless they’re being prepped to go to Northern?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Unless they’re being prepped to go to Northern?

How many are Northern having ? because they didnt take all the 323s

 

[HamworthyGoods]

How many are Northern having ? because they didnt take all the 323s

All 37

 

[spotify95]

As has already been mentioned EMR managed to get just one train from St Pancras all the way to Corby today.
Isn't that a joke as well?
And you've forgotten Wellingborough. Don't worry, though, I'm pretty sure from the current usage Wellingborough has forgotten trains.

Wellingborough really has been left out here.

If the 360s fail then Wellingborough has nothing, unless emergency stop orders are out through to stop Intercity services at Wellingborough. (We at least used to have 222s and the odd HST/180 to Nottingham via Leicester.)

If the 222s have their engine roulette moments then who's to say how far North anyone will go?

I can't imagine trying to take the train from Wellingborough to Corby for work purposes anymore - most days, I probably wouldn't get to work on time! Thank goodness for road transport!

 

[liamf656]

222017 is now out of service to be handed back to the leasing company

 

[222001]

222017 is now out of service to be handed back to the leasing company

Random, thought it would be 103, but that made a comeback yesterday!