EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[QSK19]

On the subject on the current condition of the 222s, I took these photos of 222103 the other day. The leading two coaches appear to be suffering from some serious corrosion! These two coaches are the ones that were repaired after being dropped by Hull Trains - not sure if that has anything to do with it, as I've not noticed it on any others.View attachment 198283View attachment 198284

Yikes! Reminds me of the well-ventilated 156s that used to grace EMR (156907 being one of the worst IIRC)! Hopefully they don’t let it get so bad that it becomes an efficient air conditioning system!

 

[D365]

Yikes! Reminds me of the well-ventilated 156s that used to grace EMR (156907 being one of the worst IIRC)! Hopefully they don’t let it get so bad that it becomes an efficient air conditioning system!

No wonder then that 156407 (aka 907) has been withdrawn from traffic.

At least with the Class 222s, there will be three intermediate vehicles going spare as a result of the Lumo reformation…

 

[Bikeman78]

The fall from grace has been quite spectacular. I rode on all 27 units in summer and autumn 2024. Almost every train was two minutes late but nothing more serious. I only found one engine isolated during the two trips.

 

[duffield]

I'm definitely no expert in these matters but it sounds like the 222s might have hit the far side (wear-out phase) of the "bathtub failure curve" given their reliability seems to be falling off a cliff. Do they maybe all need new/refurb power units before they are redeployed? Unfortunately, the 810s are still on the near side ("Infant mortality") of the same curve!

Link:

Bathtub curve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quote:

In reliability engineering and deterioration modeling, a bathtub curve is a failure rate graph that curves up at both ends, similar in shape to a bathtub. The term can also apply to any graph with this shape.

Further quote:

The bathtub curve has 3 regions:

The first region has a decreasing failure rate due to early failures (a.k.a. the "Infant Mortality Phase").
The middle region is a constant failure rate due to random failures (a.k.a. the "Useful Life Phase").
The last region is an increasing failure rate due to wear-out failures (a.k.a. the "Wear-Out Phase").

 

[Railperf]

Performance looking really poor today.

Only Units 6, 12, 15 and 17 seemingly consistent with good accelerations.

Worst performers - on the naughty step are units 10, 13 20, 104 and 101.

Everything else is producing performance suggesting only one engine out. Units 14 and 16 started brightly, but faded into the mid range. The much maligned unit 20 started in the mid range but must again be running back on three engines again!

Can units that end the day at Crickelwood/ St Pancras receive much in the way of repairs?

 

[ThatBloke]

On the subject on the current condition of the 222s, I took these photos of 222103 the other day. The leading two coaches appear to be suffering from some serious corrosion! These two coaches are the ones that were repaired after being dropped by Hull Trains - not sure if that has anything to do with it, as I've not noticed it on any others.View attachment 198283View attachment 198284

Its a known issue on the 222s. Will be interesting to see how Beacon(previously Eversholt) and East Mids deal with the issue when the units are finally handed back, prior to their new Operator. The interesting element is at what point is any corrosion impacting the structural integrity.

 

[parrot]

Performance looking really poor today.

Only Units 6, 15 and 17 seemingly consistent with good accelerations.

Worst performers - on the naughty step are units 10, 13 20, 104 and 101.

Everything else is producing performance suggesting only one engine out. Units 14 and 16 started brightly, but faded into the mid range. The much maligned unit 20 started in the mid range but must again be running back on three engines again!

Can units that end the day at Crickelwood/ St Pancras receive much in the way of repairs?

I've seen Hitachi engineers walking around the units at Cricklewood but as to what they are doing I am unsure. This is during the day though, I havent seen anything at night yet.

 

[Wyrleybart]

On the subject on the current condition of the 222s, I took these photos of 222103 the other day. The leading two coaches appear to be suffering from some serious corrosion! These two coaches are the ones that were repaired after being dropped by Hull Trains - not sure if that has anything to do with it, as I've not noticed it on any others.View attachment 198283View attachment 198284

Were they vinyled when first put into service with Hull Trains ?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Worst performers - on the naughty step are units 10, 13 20, 104 and 101.

Not wanting to get into the "missing engines" spotting game, currently on 222020 (after 810012 was cancelled) and coach L (it's a 10 car) is freezing with minimal lighting so this would suggest a power issue. On the plus side people are obviously avoiding this coach so its fairly quiet!

 

[Railperf]

Not wanting to get into the "missing engines" spotting game, currently on 222020 (after 810012 was cancelled) and coach L (it's a 10 car) is freezing with minimal lighting so this would suggest a power issue. On the plus side people are obviously avoiding this coach so its fairly quiet!

Actually it is getting harder to find a set with all engines running - seemingly a handful of sets out of 19/20 in service each day!

 

[1D54]

1F01 STP-SHF cancelled this morning due to a faulty train meaning 1C23 has gone the same way on the return.

 

[liamf656]

1F01 STP-SHF cancelled this morning due to a faulty train meaning 1C23 has gone the same way on the return.

Should've been 222013

 

[Railperf]

Should've been 222013

And 014 caped at Derby on the 6:00 Sheffield to St Pancras - 5 units down today! Started the day on 18/20 required Now 17.

 

[STINT47]

EMR must be loosing a fortune in delay repay claims at the moment. Hopefully the financial hit will focus some minds to get things sorted.

 

[Railperf]

EMR must be loosing a fortune in delay repay claims at the moment. Hopefully the financial hit will focus some minds to get things sorted.

And an 810 is out of action too!

 

[apinnard]

Do the current performance and thus timing issues of the current 222/810 fleet cause any knock-on effects with the VERY intricate pathing of the fast line between Thameslink and EMR south of Bedford?

 

[ChilliSauce]

EMR must be loosing a fortune in delay repay claims at the moment. Hopefully the financial hit will focus some minds to get things sorted.

Doubt it .. DaFT backed financially rather than making the franchise holder "Transport UK" take the hit. And doubt they are too bothered either as finally later this year (18th October 2026) will be removed from the equation when the services come back under direct public ownership / control..

Hopefully then a new pair of eyes and a better controlling mind will "Tell Hitachi" (who are hardly inspiring the next - their catch phase not mine!) to get their fingers out and deliver quality fit for purpose goods ..

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2026 ==

Do the current performance and thus timing issues of the current 222/810 fleet cause any knock-on effects with the VERY intricate pathing of the fast line between Thameslink and EMR south of Bedford?

The solution seems simple ...If EMR are late they have missed "their path" ...Just simply put the Thameslink out in front .. on-time presentation is critical for the Thameslink Core section...

 

[222001]

The solution seems simple ...If EMR are late they have missed "their path" ...Just simply put the Thameslink out in front .. on-time presentation is critical for the Thameslink Core section...

The critical point is Harpenden Junction, where the TL Brighton is pathed only 2.5 minutes behind the Sheffield semi-fast! The fast has a greater allowance of 4 minutes, but this is often missed too. The result of falling behind the TL Brighton, is about a 10 minute delay into arrival in St Pancras.

 

[Railperf]

The critical point is Harpenden Junction, where the TL Brighton is pathed only 2.5 minutes behind the Sheffield semi-fast! The fast has a greater allowance of 4 minutes, but this is often missed too. The result of falling behind the TL Brighton, is about a 10 minute delay into arrival in St Pancras.

Where does the Sheffield service need to be at the very latest to gain the path even if it is late? I'm assuming that automatic route setting kicks in giving TL priority when it has reached a certain signal berth?

 

[222001]

Where does the Sheffield service need to be at the very latest to gain the path even if it is late? I'm assuming that automatic route setting kicks in giving TL priority when it has reached a certain signal berth?

It can vary, but in general I find if you're not in the 3rd/4th berth before the junction, the TL will go out first. In some rare cases, I've also seen the TL continue down the SL to go over at Radlett instead.

 

[Railperf]

It can vary, but in general I find if you're not in the 3rd/4th berth before the junction, the TL will go out first. In some rare cases, I've also seen the TL continue down the SL to go over at Radlett instead.

Just now Thameslink service 9t43, due to go over to fast line at Harpenden has been kept on the slow due to late Nottingham (16 late) and Sheffield (7 late) services. Looks likely to be switched over at Radlett.
EDIT: 9T43 was switched at Radlett behind 1C56 incurring a 3 min delay by West Hampstead but it has 3 min allowances to allow it to arrive at the core on time.

 

[dk1]

EMR must be loosing a fortune in delay repay claims at the moment. Hopefully the financial hit will focus some minds to get things sorted.

I don’t think there’s much they can do apart from take it on the chin until more 810s take over.

 

[InTheEastMids]

I don’t think there’s much they can do apart from take it on the chin until more 810s take over.

Is that going to make things any better though?
The 810 fleet seems obviously to be at the top of the bathtub, and I think there just isn't the capacity to get them reliable in addition to patching up the older trains - currently they have 29 IC units to try and keep running.

Picture is pretty dire at St Pancras today.
- Most IC arrivals seem to be 10-15 minutes late
- All IC departures from 1602-1702 inclusive departed late
- 1602 is the only departure all evening that will be 10 cars
- 1728 from Nottingham and 1802 to Sheffield are cancelled

Would expect a number of "very very busy" outbound services, feeling grateful I did not have to travel today.

It's the sort of issue that you would be a good story for a railway journalist. "EMR: Hanging on by a thread". There you go guys, headline's written for you.

 

[dk1]

Is that going to make things any better though?
The 810 fleet seems obviously to be at the top of the bathtub, and I think there just isn't the capacity to get them reliable in addition to patching up the older trains - currently they have 29 IC units to try and keep running.

Picture is pretty dire at St Pancras today.
- Most IC arrivals seem to be 10-15 minutes late
- All IC departures from 1602-1702 inclusive departed late
- 1602 is the only departure all evening that will be 10 cars
- 1728 from Nottingham and 1802 to Sheffield are cancelled

Would expect a number of "very very busy" outbound services, feeling grateful I did not have to travel today.

It's the sort of issue that you would be a good story for a railway journalist. "EMR: Hanging on by a thread". There you go guys, headline's written for you.

The situation will probably get a little worse before it gets better unfortunately.

 

[Amos390]

The situation will probably get a little worse before it gets better unfortunately.

Maybe EMR will have shipped off a few more 222s/brought in more 810s before that happens so its either 'not their problem' or they have semi-reliable stock to cover their backs

 

[Railperf]

Maybe EMR will have shipped off a few more 222s/brought in more 810s before that happens so its either 'not their problem' or they have semi-reliable stock to cover their backs

what are EMR's options? The 222's are EMR's best assett when maintained.
DO EMR cancel / alter some diagrams to ensure more units can be brought back up to standard?
Or carry on rinsing the fleet until so many units are on their knees that they will not have enough units to run the service?
Can EMR afford to bring across more unreliable 810's reducing the capacity to maintain and service the 222's?

 

[222001]

what are EMR's options? The 222's are EMR's best assett when maintained.
DO EMR cancel / alter some diagrams to ensure more units can be brought back up to standard?
Or carry on rinsing the fleet until so many units are on their knees that they will not have enough units to run the service?
Can EMR afford to bring across more unreliable 810's reducing the capacity to maintain and service the 222's?

Things should hopefully settle down once the next couple of 810s arrive (in the next few weeks?), as long as no further 222s are stopped!

 

[dk1]

Maybe EMR will have shipped off a few more 222s/brought in more 810s before that happens so its either 'not their problem' or they have semi-reliable stock to cover their backs

It really just ‘is what it is’ nothing more, nothing less from what I can see.

 

[liamf656]

Things should hopefully settle down once the next couple of 810s arrive (in the next few weeks?), as long as no further 222s are stopped!

There should be a good few 810s arriving before the next 222 departs

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm not sure you need to take offence on EMR's behalf. Whether an effort's been made to mitigate it or not, unfortunately their Intercity fleet is a shambles right now and the customer is affected. The Meridians are indeed falling apart, while EMR continue to push good press about the Auroras.

If I tried to bake a cake, and put a lot of effort in, yet still sold it to somebody raw, would you think it insulting to complain about the cake being raw?

It's ultimately a consequence of not having enough resources to deliver the service
The 222s are being worked too hard and something has to give.

They are covering for the HSTs and 180s that left the fleet, plus the 7 cars that left.

Hopefully more 810s can be introduced to mitigate this, allow more time to be spent properly maintaining the 222s, ie changing the power packs