EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[Railperf]

Looks like 222008 has now been pulled from 1B76 at Kettering (Back to etches under 5Z76) m. This one is down to traction too.

Loss of more than 2 engines?

 

[Amos390]

Loss of more than 2 engines?

Not sure, but 008 appears to be back already and is on 1B99 right now at Notts (a 15 car according to RTT…)

 

[CR165022]

Not sure, but 008 appears to be back already and is on 1B99 right now at Notts (a 15 car according to RTT…)

Would be a set swap from 008/016 to 010 most likely.

 

[liamf656]

Not sure, but 008 appears to be back already and is on 1B99 right now at Notts (a 15 car according to RTT…)

It's actually 016/010 running on 1B99. 008 was taken out of service on 1B76 after losing 3 engines

 

[Railperf]

It's actually 016/010 running on 1B99. 008 was taken out of service on 1B76 after losing 3 engines

How many engines did 008 start the day on? Only three?
Is there anyone that can give us a reliable update on how many sets are starting the day with one or more engines out and how many?

Edit: 17 out of 22 sets out today.
Units 007, 013, 015, 017 and 018 are the units out of action for a second day in a row. 008 appears to be out again today following yesterdays failure. But 007 still out of action since the Sharnbrook failure!

Out of interest, if a set is only running on 3 engines at the start of the day, those remaining engines will consume a lot more fuel. Is fuel shortage causing engine loss? Do the engines shut down automatically if they run out of fuel? And can a driver see if a particular vehicle is running low on fuel in a set?

 

[Amos390]

It's actually 016/010 running on 1B99. 008 was taken out of service on 1B76 after losing 3 engines

Yeah, saw it had been taken out, but I presumed they’d just slotted it back into service

 

[Railperf]

Yeah, saw it had been taken out, but I presumed they’d just slotted it back into service

I'm hearing that there may only be as few as four sets running on all 5 engines at the moment - a shocking state of affairs.

 

[liamf656]

I'm hearing that there may only be as few as four sets running on all 5 engines at the moment - a shocking state of affairs.

Heard from where please?

 

[Railperf]

Heard from where please?

Independent observations of sets in traffic.

 

[321362]

Makes me quite sad that 222s have gone from an extremely reliable fleet - they were once thought to be the best in the UK - to a laughing stock in such a short space of time.

 

[Railperf]

Makes me quite sad that 222s have gone from an extremely reliable fleet - they were once thought to be the best in the UK - to a laughing stock in such a short space of time.

I feel very sorry for and sympathise with EMR front line maintenance and service staff who are trying to provide as many trains at the beginning of each day as possible with their hands clearly tied and a limitation in resources.

But the situation is clear that the 222s have not suddenly become a bad train overnight.
As someone who comes from a service and maintenance background It is clear that the issues stem from an inability to maintain these trains as they have been when they were reaching their highest reliability figures.

Nobody wants to be the bearer of bad news. I wish we could be reporting that in spite of the introduction of 810s, the 222s are still maintaining a high level of reliability.

It seems as if four sets were operating on only three engines yesterday - 008 -which failed, 010, 020 and 022 -;which is an improvement on Tuesday where it seems five sets were on only three engines!
As for the sets seemingly on a full five engines yesterday these were 004, 019, 102 and 104.

 

[222001]

I'm hearing that there may only be as few as four sets running on all 5 engines at the moment - a shocking state of affairs.

Doesn't surprise me, seeing a set on all 5 engines is quite the rarity these days. Seems 4 is par for the course at the moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2026 ==

It seems as if four sets were operating on only three engines yesterday - 008 -which failed, 010, 020 and 022 -;which is an improvement on Tuesday where it seems five sets were on only three engines!
As for the sets seemingly on a full five engines yesterday these were 004, 019, 102 and 104.

Interestingly I noted 222022 as only having 3 engines working on 17/01, so this must be quite a long term issue.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Does anyone know what is causing the 222s to have so many engine faults?
Are XC 220/221s also having similar faults or is this not the case?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Does anyone know what is causing the 222s to have so many engine faults?
Are XC 220/221s also having similar faults or is this not the case?

In terms of engines / traction equipment the XC 22x are generally behaving well. IMHO this is because the depot at Central Rivers has always their home and they are the primary fleet. Etches Park on the other hand is transitioning to the new 810 fleet but online there is a £35M project to convert the depot - presumably under the wheels of both fleets.

 

[voyagerdude220]

In terms of engines / traction equipment the XC 22x are generally behaving well. IMHO this is because the depot at Central Rivers has always their home and they are the primary fleet. Etches Park on the other hand is transitioning to the new 810 fleet but online there is a £35M project to convert the depot - presumably under the wheels of both fleets.

Thanks for that. Yes I've always had the impression that Central Rivers do a great job looking after the XC 220/221s.
I'm guessing there isn't the capacity for Central Rivers to occasionally take in one or two 222s and get them back to full working (all engines working) order.

 

[Amos390]

Thanks for that. Yes I've always had the impression that Central Rivers do a great job looking after the XC 220/221s.
I'm guessing there isn't the capacity for Central Rivers to occasionally take in one or two 222s and get them back to full working (all engines working) order.

Well, Central Rivers is currently taking care of 222005 whilst it undergoes route learning/driver training for Lumo's new route, but I'm sure that won't last for much longer with 001 in Widnes getting kitted out for Lumo (of which, just out of interest are there any pictures of how the unit is looking?) and 002 having just been sent up to Polmadie.

 

[R Scandle]

Good enough for ScotRail!

 

[Railperf]

Good enough for ScotRail!

So were the HSTs?

 

[Russel]

I understand Etches Park has transferred to Hitachi, but it'll still the same front line staff and management working in the depots on the 222's that have been there for many years, so knowledge shouldn't be an issue, so what is going wrong here?

 

[ThatBloke]

I understand Etches Park has transferred to Hitachi, but it'll still the same front line staff and management working in the depots on the 222's that have been there for many years, so knowledge shouldn't be an issue, so what is going wrong here?

After observing what has happened at EP close up since Hitachi took over the 222 maintenance, from Alstom. There are a number of key differences:
-Hitachi are doing the 222 maintenance on sufference, as their 810s are woefully late.
Hitachi want to spend as little money and resources as possible, during the transition to 810s.
-Although Hitachi have objectives for 222 reliability, the motivations and penalties for non delivery are clearly not punitive enough to make Hitachi behave differently.
-Hitachi's senior management focus is (rightly) their 810s.
-Alstom are quite content to continue with profitable, short term contracts with EMR for material supply and minimal technical support.The pipeline for mods and other product improvements has dried up.
-Decisions taken some years ago, anticipating, the end of service date for the 222s, are now being realised with maintenance and other issues that now have to be addressed.

 

[Railperf]

Big Improvement in EMR Class 222 availability - dare we say a heroic effort by staff. Today starts with 19 out of 22 sets available for traffic. Set 008 which had been limping around on three engines appears to be in for attention. Sets 013, 017 and 018 - missing for the last two days have reappeared. Set 007 - which failed at Sharnbrook - most likely on two engines - is still out of traffic. Unit 015 also appears to have been out of action for the week too.

Looks like only one short formed service today.

What remains to be seen is the engine situation with several sets in the last few days having been sent out with only three out of five engines working with a higher risk of failure.
It was nice to see GWR MD Mark Hopwood saying he wants to see Hitachi Cass 80x sets running on ALL engines. I hope behind the scenes DfT and EMR are making clear to Hitachi that they need the same effort for both the outgoing 222's and the incoming 810's.

 

[ChilliSauce]

It was nice to see GWR MD Mark Hopwood saying he wants to see Hitachi Cass 80x sets running on ALL engines.

And pigs might fly.

It was the very poor performance of the Hitachi class 805 on the Preston / Carlisle shuttles over the Settle & Carlisle whilst Clifton Bridge was replaced. As in Generator Failures coupled with frozen toilets that resulted in that service running little better than ad-hoc. With complete cancellations being quite normal

 

[222001]

It seems as if four sets were operating on only three engines yesterday - 008 -which failed, 010, 020 and 022 -;which is an improvement on Tuesday where it seems five sets were on only three engines!
As for the sets seemingly on a full five engines yesterday these were 004, 019, 102 and 104.

Seems like 022 has given up this evening now - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C52322/2026-02-05/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Russel]

And pigs might fly.

It was the very poor performance of the Hitachi class 805 on the Preston / Carlisle shuttles over the Settle & Carlisle whilst Clifton Bridge was replaced. As in Generator Failures coupled with frozen toilets that resulted in that service running little better than ad-hoc. With complete cancellations being quite normal

Yet we keep rewarding Hitachi with more orders!

 

[dk1]

And pigs might fly.

It was the very poor performance of the Hitachi class 805 on the Preston / Carlisle shuttles over the Settle & Carlisle whilst Clifton Bridge was replaced. As in Generator Failures coupled with frozen toilets that resulted in that service running little better than ad-hoc. With complete cancellations being quite normal

I’m sure lessons will be learnt from those S&C hiccups.

 

[Railperf]

Seems like 022 has given up this evening now - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C52322/2026-02-05/detailed#allox_id=0

No surprise as this is one of the four units that are only running on three engines!!

 

[jfowkes]

I bet Lumo can't WAIT to receive these units after absolutely being thrashed. With no disrespect to the engineers that keep them going, I hope they receive a major overhaul before they hit the WCML.

I'm getting "Hull Trains gets Adelantes" vibes from all this.

 

[dk1]

I'm getting "Hull Trains gets Adelantes" vibes from all this.

That was a comical time in modern railway history following the glory of those Pioneer days on Humberside.

 

[ChilliSauce]

I bet Lumo can't WAIT to receive these units after absolutely being thrashed. With no disrespect to the engineers that keep them going, I hope they receive a major overhaul before they hit the WCML.

Well if these units being run by this open operator keep failing then LUMO will keep having to pay out compensation to Public Owned N.Rail who basically will end up passing it on to the Public Owned Intercity Operator: Avanti.

The whole operation might become commercially unviable if the trains don't work properly

Wonder what contingency LUMO have for the rescue of their trains if they break down in section?

 

[Russel]

I bet Lumo can't WAIT to receive these units after absolutely being thrashed. With no disrespect to the engineers that keep them going, I hope they receive a major overhaul before they hit the WCML.

I'm getting "Hull Trains gets Adelantes" vibes from all this.

I'm just hoping the guys at Alstom can work their magic and undo the last few years of EMR damage because I'm not looking forward to my journey home from work on the WCML being disrupted when these fail!