EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[Railperf]

Yes.

But that increases the risk of service failure as seen above!

 

[43096]

But that increases the risk of service failure as seen above!

But not taking it out guarantees cancellation. What would you rather?

 

[baz962]

Well it can , but it's the rules/agreement and a driver cannot refuse.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Down to 2 working engines and struggling to maintain air.

I am guessing the 222s are a similar set up to 220 and 221 where the cab cars do not have air compressors.

The 222s have done pretty well to survive this long given they should have been replaced by 810s at least two years ago. So the Rosco has actually got an extended lease out of the them.

Do EMR contract Cummins in to do the engines on 222s

 

[Railperf]

When did any of the 222's last undergo a major overhaul. The 222's will last a lot longer provided they are serviced and maintained properly. But recent reliability suggests resources being focused on the 810's and minimal resource to keep the 222's in service.

It's a shame because it must be costing EMR loads in compensation for late / cancelled trains.

 

[3RDGEN]

But that increases the risk of service failure as seen above!

If it goes out on three it may fail it may not, if you don't send it out its guaranteed cancellations so your going to send it out, what choice do EMR have?

 

[Railperf]

If it goes out on three it may fail it may not, if you don't send it out its guaranteed cancellations so your going to send it out, what choice do EMR have?

The choice is to keep these maintained better or risk delay and cancellation

 

[3RDGEN]

The choice is to keep these maintained better or risk delay and cancellation

If they could I suggest EMR/Hitachi would be doing but given the current fleet limitations there isn't the downtime available so reliability is going to suffer and the focus will be on the 810's as they are the future. Spares will likely be an issue now as EMR/Hitachi will have cut back on stock since they expected to have return the units. If the engines or cooler groups etc, are due overhaul they will be getting overhauled since you can't just decide to delay those activities these days, the ROSCO will demand the work is done unless you can justify otherwise and the units will be fully operational at handback as again the ROSCO will demand it.

 

[liamf656]

The choice is to keep these maintained better or risk delay and cancellation

I don't think you quite understand how hard people have worked to keep these trains in service. Since we lost the 180s a few years ago efforts to keep as many 222s in service have been tireless. I've seen in recent months up to 25 out of 27 Meridians in service or ready for service. There could be endless reasons why we struggle with short formations from supply issues, exams and faults that do take a while to fix, none of which would be at the fault of the staff and certainly not down to poor maintenance.

They are not "prioritising" the 810s, 170s or units that are staying longer/leaving sooner either. The reason why it may look like 810s are prioritised is because there is a team of people temporarily based in Derby specifically to ensure the introduction is smoothly. These people have been involved with the 810s from the beginning and have no involvement with any other EMR fleet

Please, before you make sweeping statements about the ability of staff make sure you understand the full facts

 

[Railperf]

I don't think you quite understand how hard people have worked to keep these trains in service. Since we lost the 180s a few years ago efforts to keep as many 222s in service have been tireless. I've seen in recent months up to 25 out of 27 Meridians in service or ready for service. There could be endless reasons why we struggle with short formations from supply issues, exams and faults that do take a while to fix, none of which would be at the fault of the staff and certainly not down to poor maintenance.

They are not "prioritising" the 810s, 170s or units that are staying longer/leaving sooner either. The reason why it may look like 810s are prioritised is because there is a team of people temporarily based in Derby specifically to ensure the introduction is smoothly. These people have been involved with the 810s from the beginning and have no involvement with any other EMR fleet
Please, before you make sweeping statements about the ability of staff make sure you understand the full facts

Liam - No-one has questioned the ability or commitment of staff. Indeed the EMR 222's have been one of the most reliable fleets in the country and that is down to the commitment and ability of staff. Credit to them and it is not their fault that things are so bad.
The current demise - as you say - is down to a number of factors - not least the having to send units to Lumo which are needed on EMR The biggest issue is management / Dft deciding to continue running a full timetable with a now reduced and threadbare fleet.

This is not the first time where an old fleet being replaced by a delayed new fleet results in a shortage of serviceable trains and services being formed by units that need to be in a depot requiring repair.

A better but not ideal situation would be to permanently cancel some lightly used services permanently for a while so that the reliability can be improved until the correct ratio of healthy / spare units to diagrams can be restored and enough 810s introduced to cover the diagrams.

Long term this is an area GBR will need to manage better when fleets are replaced. It isn't acceptable that passengers ahould suffer like this because the industry cannot manage fleet replacement better.

 

[Amos390]

They also have the issue in that they don't have the permitted crew to operate more than 2 810 flows at one time, however they are trying to get in as many 810s as possible. At the moment, we can see that on a weekday, there are 4 810s out at most - 2 running passengers and 2 running ECS driver training. EMR should've worked with GBRf and their 810s before taking in some for use with themselves, so that when the 810s did come to EMR, they have enough drivers to help slowly relieve the 222s and swap them out for 810s and so have less reliability on clearly ageing, worn down stock. It would have meant that instead of just 2 810s subbing in for 222s at one time, they can run at pretty much ful capacity with the 810s (maybe leaving a few spare for further training if and when needed)

 

[duffield]

They also have the issue in that they don't have the permitted crew to operate more than 2 810 flows at one time, ...

We've been told a third diagram is due to operate from this Monday. Is that not likely to happen then?

 

[Amos390]

We've been told a third diagram is due to operate from this Monday. Is that not likely to happen then?

I've heard there will be a 3rd diagram by March for definite, but not sure exactly what date. I suppose it could happen on Monday, it won't bring out any of the 222s currently in service though as 003 was pulled earlier in the month, so the 810 coming in will balance out 222003 leaving I suppose.

 

[Railperf]

I've heard there will be a 3rd diagram by March for definite, but not sure exactly what date.

Yes it is 'due' to start. But the 810's have struggled to operate their two assigned diagrams for a full week with a 222 deputising for failures.
So lets see how next week goes. the remaining 7-car 222 is due to be returned off lease imminently so EMR will be under pressure until 5 diagrams minimum are covered by 810's. And probably more to cover the withdrawn 180s.

 

[Amos390]

Yes it is 'due' to start. But the 810's have struggled to operate their two assigned diagrams for a full week with a 222 deputising for failures.
So lets see how next week goes. the remaining 7-car 222 is due to be returned off lease imminently so EMR will be under pressure until 5 diagrams minimum are covered by 810's. And probably more to cover the withdrawn 180s.

Suppose once 222004 goes, that'd be the last one (for a while anyways, depending on what happens to 006-104) and so EMR won't have to worry about pulling stock from service after this. I think that 810014 is nearly ready to begin testing on the mainline so that'll come to EMR soon to further add to the amount of 810s, but for now they will just have to deal with a limited number of stock (Which may be easier said than done)

 

[liamf656]

I've heard there will be a 3rd diagram by March for definite, but not sure exactly what date. I suppose it could happen on Monday, it won't bring out any of the 222s currently in service though as 003 was pulled earlier in the month, so the 810 coming in will balance out 222003 leaving I suppose.

Monday 26th January the 3rd diagram begins. And yes they do have the traincrew for them

 

[Amos390]

Monday 26th January the 3rd diagram begins. And yes they do have the traincrew for them

Ooh great, thanks, just hope that the 810 is also up for the task…

 

[tram21]

Was on 015 this afternoon only on 3 engines, had a very quiet ride in Coach B, its very noticeable when your coach doesn't have an engine.

The secondary lights kept switching off in the carriage with the TM constantly trying to reset it, apparently the train or carriage was operating in low power mode or something as a result of the reduced engine capacity, and the plug sockets weren't working either.

 

[londonmidland]

1C94 consisting of 222022 and 222007 currently stands at Sharnbrook Jn with a ‘Level 3 fault’.

It’s been sat here for over an hour now.

 

[tram21]

1C94 consisting of 222022 and 222007 currently stands at Sharnbrook Jn with a ‘Level 3 fault’.

It’s been sat here for over an hour now.

Do you know what each level of fault means?

 

[londonmidland]

Do you know what each level of fault means?

I'm afraid not. But I'm guessing Level 3 is the highest in terms of severity?

Passengers on board this service are now to undergo a side-to-side evacuation, with an empty Class 360 take to passengers forward to London St. Pancras.

 

[D365]

Passengers on board this service are now to undergo a side-to-side evacuation, with an empty Class 360 take to passengers forward to London St. Pancras.

Just the one unit?!

 

[londonmidland]

Just the one unit?!

x2 360 units - 360114 and 360111.

 

[westcoaster]

Still at a stand 3 hours or so now, a 5Y11 is now in the area.

 

[Amos390]

Are the 222s going to require a thunderbird loco back to Derby or will they be able to do it under their own power/another 222’s power?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2026 ==

5Y11 turned into 1Z10 to hopefully head back north to Wellingborough or Kettering, no sight of any 0Z99 locos anywhere

1535 - 1Z10 is moving as of 1535, headed north
1540 - 1Z10 arrived into Wellingborough P1
1548 - 1Z10 moving north out of Wellingborough on the slow lines now
1555 - 1C94 turned into 5Z94
1558 - 1Z10 into Kettering

 

[liamf656]

Are the 222s going to require a thunderbird loco back to Derby or will they be able to do it under their own power/another 222’s power?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2026 ==

5Y11 turned into 1Z10 to hopefully head back north to Wellingborough or Kettering, no sight of any 0Z99 locos anywhere

1535 - 1Z10 is moving as of 1535, headed north
1540 - 1Z10 arrived into Wellingborough P1
1548 - 1Z10 moving north out of Wellingborough on the slow lines now

I believe the plan is to get the failed train (10 car) moving under its own power

 

[Amos390]

I believe the plan is to get the failed train (10 car) moving under its own power

looks like it now, just turned into 5Z94, no timetable thoguh

Edit: Nevermind, timetable has just been created - https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train/?c=51722&d=2026-02-01
Moving towards bedford @ 1604

 

[Railperf]

looks like it now, just turned into 5Z94, no timetable thoguh

Edit: Nevermind, timetable has just been created - https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train/?c=51722&d=2026-02-01
Moving towards bedford @ 1604

Did passengers transfer onto the 360's or are they still aboard the 222's?

 

[CR165022]

Did passengers transfer onto the 360's or are they still aboard the 222's?

Given that the 360s are now a 1Z and the 222s are a 5Z, it's safe to assume they've been moved to the 360

 

[Railperf]

Given that the 360s are now a 1Z and the 222s are a 5Z, it's safe to assume they've been moved to the 360

Thanks, just checking rather than assuming this was the case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2026 ==

1C94 consisting of 222022 and 222007 currently stands at Sharnbrook Jn with a ‘Level 3 fault’.

It’s been sat here for over an hour now.

Any news on the actual fault yet? Achieved timings suggest one or both units started the day underpowered. I guess if one of the units had only been on three engines and lost one climbing Sharnbrook, then that would have caused air issues?