EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[londonmidland]

There has been a considerable amount of disruption today towards EMR’s Intercity services, due to a total of five Class 222s failing whilst in service throughout today.

The last London St Pancras service from Sheffield has been cancelled, due to so many sets out of use.

There are also a number of sets which are out of service, requiring maintenance.

These issues are being increasingly common. Particularly so with the hot weather causing a considerable amount of issues, such as engines overheating and multiple air conditioning failures on board.

 

[43066]

As someone who is very familiar with the 222 fleet (thankfully not for much longer) anecdotally they are very much being flogged to death, and over the last year or so are clearly being maintained to a much lower standard. Single or even two engines out is fairly common and, if you’re down two, and lose another on a five car, the unit has to be taken out of service.

Cab a/c seems to be becoming less reliable which will be causing issues at the moment. Add to that toilets out of use, and a general air of dilapidation.

Overall not a pretty picture, especially given the delays to the 810s.

 

[43055]

Not helped by the very intense timetable aswell after the 180's left so some nights they get little or no time for maintenance.

There has been a considerable amount of disruption today towards EMR’s Intercity services, due to a total of five Class 222s failing whilst in service throughout today.

The last London St Pancras service from Sheffield has been cancelled, due to so many sets out of use.

There are also a number of sets which are out of service, requiring maintenance.

These issues are being increasingly common. Particularly so with the hot weather causing a considerable amount of issues, such as engines overheating and multiple air conditioning failures on board.

Only 1 10 car ln the peak as well along with the 1832 and 1902 to Sheffield cancelled. 1932 left at 1958 giving a almost 2 hour gap.

 

[liamf656]

Only 1 10 car ln the peak as well along with the 1832 and 1902 to Sheffield cancelled. 1932 left at 1958 giving a almost 2 hour gap.

And out of Nottingham we had the 1512, 1612 and 1650 cancelled. The 1712 was a bit cozy to say the least

 

[Trainman40083]

I found reading this thread most interesting. I no longer choose to travel by rail.

 

[2001olib]

Unfortunately this is the new norm for the east midlands as a whole. Politically it doesnt carry enough clout to bother spending big money in. Hence why we recieve the lowest level of transport spending per capita, 56% of the national average.

 

[Qwerty133]

Cab a/c seems to be becoming less reliable which will be causing issues at the moment. Add to that toilets out of use, and a general air of dilapidation.

Of course there is no legal maximum working temperature and millions of workers are working in places without air conditioning so there's a quite simple solution to that one.

 

[43066]

Of course there is no legal maximum working temperature and millions of workers are working in places without air conditioning so there's a quite simple solution to that one.

The simple solution is that the driver fails the train if they feel they are unable to drive it safely. Legal maximum working temperatures don’t come into it, and millions of other workers aren’t driving trains around with hundreds of people on them, so are completely irrelevant.

 

[222001]

Very surprised to see all 222 diagrams covered today, let's hope it continues!

 

[tram21]

Very surprised to see all 222 diagrams covered today, let's hope it continues!

To be fair cancellations aren't particularly common , at least in the morning, it's just if a unit fails during the day there's nothing to replace it with

 

[LowLevel]

Of course there is no legal maximum working temperature and millions of workers are working in places without air conditioning so there's a quite simple solution to that one.

Millions of people in the UK aren't working in a few square enclosed feet of fibreglass, plastic and metal in front of a large pane of glass with no opening windows and no way of moving for any relief whilst undertaking their work.

There is a process in place for traincrew to refuse to work on board overheating trains for a reason. Passengers have the choice to get on or not, it's unreasonable to suggest people should work on defective equipment just because.

 

[222001]

To be fair cancellations aren't particularly common , at least in the morning, it's just if a unit fails during the day there's nothing to replace it with

Yes I'd agree there, it's usually the 1732 STP-SHF gets short formed to 5 vice 10, followed by the 1902 STP-SHF. But both are 10s today.

 

[duffield]

I hope this thread is suitable for discussing the general condition of the 222s since that seems to be part and parcel of the reliability question.

On 1D11 1127 St Pancras International to Nottingham (unit number 222018), the only working toilets were in coach A. The window mould situation seems to be getting worse. - note this is interior mould, not between the panes, so do enjoy breathing in the spores!

Photo: Shows close up of window edge mould on unit 222018, background is decommissioned Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station.

 

[LazyGuy222]

Seems like 222001 failed with one of yesterday's (29/07) and today's (30/07)'s 7 car diagrams completely cancelled, and clearly a bunch of 5 cars out too since theres another complete diagram cancellation already put in for today too.
From RTT it seems like 001, 005, 009, 010, 015, 019, 023 and 101 are all out of use.

 

[liamf656]

Seems like 222001 failed with one of yesterday's (29/07) and today's (30/07)'s 7 car diagrams completely cancelled, and clearly a bunch of 5 cars out too since theres another complete diagram cancellation already put in for today too.
From RTT it seems like 001, 005, 009, 010, 015, 019, 023 and 101 are all out of use.

I'm a bit confused by this. 001 hasn't failed at all and has completed its diagram on 1D88. Have you confused it with something else?

005 is being prepped for handback I'm led to believe, and 015 is off for impact damage after striking an animal on 1C83 29/07

 

[trainswitheddy]

I'm a bit confused by this. 001 hasn't failed at all and has completed its diagram on 1D88. Have you confused it with something else?

005 is being prepped for handback I'm led to believe, and 015 is off for impact damage after striking an animal on 1C83 29/07

Prepped for handback? Are EMR not struggling enough already?

 

[liamf656]

Prepped for handback? Are EMR not struggling enough already?

They don't have a choice with LUMO taking on 222001-005 for their West Coast operation.

See also:

First Rail Stirling (Lumo) Rolling Stock

The current Apprentice Customer Driver vacancies for First Stirling, operating under Lumo, state that applicants successful will be required to drive 222 units. Is this a stopgap whilst 80X stock are obtained? Further information can be found here...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Spartacus]

There seems to be some sort of issues today as they've quite a few cancellations showing.

 

[DannyMich2018]

They don't have a choice with LUMO taking on 222001-005 for their West Coast operation.

See also:

First Rail Stirling (Lumo) Rolling Stock

The current Apprentice Customer Driver vacancies for First Stirling, operating under Lumo, state that applicants successful will be required to drive 222 units. Is this a stopgap whilst 80X stock are obtained? Further information can be found here...

www.railforums.co.uk

I wonder how struggling EMR will manage with up to 5 less units? Reduced services? Reduced length services? End of Lincoln service? Clearly something will have to give. Lumo should be blocked taking any units until 810s enter service.

 

[liamf656]

I wonder how struggling EMR will manage with up to 5 less units? Reduced services? Reduced length services? End of Lincoln service? Clearly something will have to give. Lumo should be blocked taking any units until 810s enter service.

Reduced length services seem most likely, but there's also a thread on that if you want to have a read through people's suggestions:

Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 810 for EMR?

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-810-for-east-midlands-railway-construction-introduction-updates.195052/page-115#post-7169043 Recent rumour control (and I emphasise RUMOUR, albeit from “inside”)… First 222s to leave in December for full refurb prior to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[londonmidland]

#EMRUpdate Due to a fault on one of our trains we have cancelled the 21:40 service from Nottingham to London St Pancras, this is the last train of the day going to London. Can customers please travel on the earlier services where possible.

Thankfully the 21:40 from Nottingham to London St. Pancras did actually run this evening. However, this shows how bad things are getting, with near daily cancellations due to faults with the 222s, and this is before they have even started to leave for other operators. Other services this afternoon and evening have been affected, due to 'more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time', which is something we are now seeing quite a lot.

 

[MCR247]

Thankfully the 21:40 from Nottingham to London St. Pancras did actually run this evening. However, this shows how bad things are getting, with near daily cancellations due to faults with the 222s, and this is before they have even started to leave for other operators. Other services this afternoon and evening have been affected, due to 'more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time', which is something we are now seeing quite a lot.

The first time I’ve seen RTT show a train as cancelled throughout with an on time departure! https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y07013/2025-07-30/detailed

 

[cj_1985]

I wonder how struggling EMR will manage with up to 5 less units? Reduced services? Reduced length services? End of Lincoln service? Clearly something will have to give. Lumo should be blocked taking any units until 810s enter service.

We have had this discussion previously on other threads, but  why should Lumo, a non DfT co trolled TOC, be blocked from taking stock that has had a lease agreement signed, as the previous agreement, with EMR, had or was about to expire...why should that private enterprise be blocked?

And dont give us the usual 'EMR passengers will suffer' BS. Yes, we know that, but if the DfT was concerned about the risk of delays to 810 delivery they could have negotiated a lease extension, and they clearly haven't

 

[DannyMich2018]

We have had this discussion previously on other threads, but  why should Lumo, a non DfT co trolled TOC, be blocked from taking stock that has had a lease agreement signed, as the previous agreement, with EMR, had or was about to expire...why should that private enterprise be blocked?

And dont give us the usual 'EMR passengers will suffer' BS. Yes, we know that, but if the DfT was concerned about the risk of delays to 810 delivery they could have negotiated a lease extension, and they clearly haven't

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. The 222s are a great train but are heavily used, Lumo should use electric trains on a wholly electrified route, with Avanti using only electric trains into Euston seems a backwards step having diesels back there. Also it's not fair for passengers weekends can be horrendously on EMR IC especially when the football or other big events are on, much worse now then with their availability without any having left.

 

[cj_1985]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. The 222s are a great train but are heavily used, Lumo should use electric trains on a wholly electrified route, with Avanti using only electric trains into Euston seems a backwards step having diesels back there. Also it's not fair for passengers weekends can be horrendously on EMR IC especially when the football or other big events are on, much worse now then with their availability without any having left.

Again, the stock (DEMU vs EMU)discussion has been done to death already... there are power supply issuedms at the north end of the WCML that limit the number of electric trains abke to operate at present, and what high speed EMUs are available for lease right now,  IF there was no power supply issue?

I'm quite sure Lumo/FG will order EMU/BEMUs in the long run if they get longer term track access agreement for this service, given they have otherwise ordered Hitachi EMUs for their other OAO services, and have options to order more

As for big events impact on passengers with a smaller fleet available... I'm still not seeing how/why that should impact a private businesses operations, just because the DfT didn't think to plan ahead for the 810s not being in service at this most recent/previous expected entry to service.

 

[QSK19]

I concur: Lumo have agreed a lease contract in good faith and to have the 222s summarily seized from them would be highly unfair and no doubt legal action would ensue.

Now, if the DfT wanted to offer to pay a higher lease rate and pay extremely punitive compensation to Lumo, EMR could keep the 222s; but that would be overly expensive, impractical and would do long-term, reputational damage.

The point that EMR passengers will suffer is very pertinent (so I don’t agree with the assertion that this point is “BS”); but they are the victims of circumstance, not the reason for reneging on an agreed lease contract.

Clearly, it’s a disgrace that EMR & its passengers are being treated in such a contemptuous way, but the exit of the 5 222s is happening and EMR will have to deal with it. My hunch is that there will simply be reduced services - effectively the “do nothing” approach, but we’ll see!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. The 222s are a great train but are heavily used, Lumo should use electric trains on a wholly electrified route, with Avanti using only electric trains into Euston seems a backwards step having diesels back there. Also it's not fair for passengers weekends can be horrendously on EMR IC especially when the football or other big events are on, much worse now then with their availability without any having left.

Whether or not you think Lumo chose the right rolling stock is irrelevant. The point is, the deal was agreed, and Lumo should not lose out primarily because EMR ordered a train that has taken a ridiculously long time to become suitable for use.

 

[Killingworth]

All the legality will not impress the existing regular users of EMR trains when they find their planned train is cancelled, withdrawn from the timetable or overcrowded.

Why? Because a new untried service is to be run from Stirling to Euston. The Open Access operator has all the legal rights but the railway industry comes out badly once again. Government, operators, manufacturers, it's all the same to the average rail user. In the eyes of the travelling public the Open Access aspect may not be viewed well.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

All the legality will not impress the existing regular users of EMR trains when they find their planned train is cancelled, withdrawn from the timetable or overcrowded.

Why? Because a new untried service is to be run from Stirling to Euston. The Open Access operator has all the legal rights but the railway industry comes out badly once again. Government, operators, manufacturers, it's all the same to the average rail user. In the eyes of the travelling public the Open Access aspect may not be viewed well.

Surely Lumo is the rail industry too.

Untried - these trains will be full from Day 1, they have to be for it to be profitable with their limited service. They're not going to be carting around fresh air.

As for legal rights, the DfT, Abellio/EMR and the rolling stock owner had exactly the same rights as Lumo. Everyone simply chose not to exercise them, because they didn't believe they had any need to, and no doubt any contingency planning would have been vetoed by the DfT as an unnecessary cost.

The media would have had a field day if EMR had extended the 222 lease at great cost, only for the stock to be sat idle in a yard, because the 810s entered service without a hiccup.

Hitachi should (and no doubt will) be on the hook for almost everything here.

DfT/EMR should be on the hook if they don't do enough to mitigate the 222s leaving. There are plenty of options available, but they will cost.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Aren't there some ex-Avanti 221s sitting around off-lease somewhere*? Surely the question should be why aren't they being utilised in some way to mitigate the situation? I know the answer, but it does somewhat highlight the issues of such a fragmented railway.

* - Class 180s as well? Although I can fully understand nobody wanted to even entertain the idea of utilising them!