EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[Amos390]

One wonders what analysis is done of engine failures. It could be a genuine mechanical fault, such as a blown head gasket, it could be transient, such as coolant overheated triggering a shutdown, or it could be plain lack of attention, such as running out of fuel.

From what I’ve seen on shows and observed on timetables, the unit is first given an off-on (or a tech will have a look at it if possible) at the next station call, and if the unit can continue on to the end of the day it will, if not it will be pulled, then as part of the overnight maintenance of the fleet they’re assessed and fixed up before the following day of service (if possible), or we have a 222007 scenario where the unit sits around the depot for months waiting for parts…

 

[Trainman40083]

Maybe they can take some parts, off the one sitting on Etches Park with cab damaged . 021? That said, there does seem to be a spare van, visible in the yard.

 

[Taunton]

From what I’ve seen on shows and observed on timetables, the unit is first given an off-on (or a tech will have a look at it if possible) at the next station call, and if the unit can continue on to the end of the day it will, if not it will be pulled, then as part of the overnight maintenance of the fleet they’re assessed and fixed up before the following day of service (if possible), or we have a 222007 scenario where the unit sits around the depot for months waiting for parts…

And then one has to question why you are "waiting for parts". It can be, of course, they have to be custom manufactured. But it can equally be the stores have run things too thin and they have just run out. Or even the budget for a particular area has been spent and nobody will do a budget variation until the new financial year comes around, the problems this gives to the operating team being "not my department".

 

[Trainman40083]

And then one has to question why you are "waiting for parts". It can be, of course, they have to be custom manufactured. But it can equally be the stores have run things too thin and they have just run out. Or even the budget for a particular area has been spent and nobody will do a budget variation until the new financial year comes around, the problems this gives to the operating team being "not my department".

Maybe they wound their spares down, thinking they wouldn't be needed, as all the 810s would be in service.

 

[Amos390]

And then one has to question why you are "waiting for parts". It can be, of course, they have to be custom manufactured. But it can equally be the stores have run things too thin and they have just run out. Or even the budget for a particular area has been spent and nobody will do a budget variation until the new financial year comes around, the problems this gives to the operating team being "not my department".

The parts may not be something that is readily available, I gave 222007 as an example, that needed an entirely new front cab housing, EMR don't just have one of them lying around the place, things like that need to be fabricated from the manufacturer and shipped over. Then comes all the testing to make sure the new part(s) are working as they should, which all in all can lead the unit to be out for quite a long time.

 

[Trainman40083]

The parts may not be something that is readily available, I gave 222007 as an example, that needed an entirely new front cab housing, EMR don't just have one of them lying around the place, things like that need to be fabricated from the manufacturer and shipped over. Then comes all the testing to make sure the new part(s) are working as they should, which all in all can lead the unit to be out for quite a long time.

Well, there is certainly a spare cab housing at Etches Park, but maybe demand has increased recently... Now when you go past the Bombardier depot at Central Rivers, you can also see a number of spare cabs. I'd have thought with few spare units, it is a certain strategic spare.

 

[Taunton]

I gave 222007 as an example, that needed an entirely new front cab housing, EMR don't just have one of them lying around the place, things like that need to be fabricated from the manufacturer and shipped over.

Really? Eurostar used to have their spare cab housing replacements sat outside the depot at Stratford, you could see them there as you drove up Orient Way. It's a matter of organising your spares. They are something that does get damaged from time to time. Here they are, three of them :

 

[LowLevel]

The parts may not be something that is readily available, I gave 222007 as an example, that needed an entirely new front cab housing, EMR don't just have one of them lying around the place, things like that need to be fabricated from the manufacturer and shipped over. Then comes all the testing to make sure the new part(s) are working as they should, which all in all can lead the unit to be out for quite a long time.

It's a fairly regular part to replace to be fair, most rail vehicles fabricated in such a way have a decent stock of spare cab shells. HSTs were the same.

 

[Amos390]

Well, there is certainly a spare cab housing at Etches Park, but maybe demand has increased recently... Now when you go past the Bombardier depot at Central Rivers, you can also see a number of spare cabs. I'd have thought with few spare units, it is a certain strategic spare.

Really? Eurostar used to have their spare cab housing replacements sat outside the depot at Stratford, you could see them there as you drove up Orient Way. It's a matter of organising your spares. They are something that does get damaged from time to time. Here they are, three of them :

It's a fairly regular part to replace to be fair, most rail vehicles fabricated in such a way have a decent stock of spare cab shells. HSTs were the same.

Ah I wasn’t aware of this, must have been ill-informed at somepoint along the line.

Did however hear from a driver today at Notts that the reason why 222104 (and eventually other 222s) have been pulled from service so early for ScotRail is that the 222s have been sold and technically are no longer are owned by EMR, however due to the delayed release of the 810s they have been told they can keep the 222s for a bit longer, however as soon as a 222 gets brought in for heavy maintenance (which is what happened with 104), it gets nabbed by the leasers. The driver also said that the usual number of engines that a 222 runs on is 3, which is one more than the boundary of 2 that needs to be met before the unit is pulled from service (however the unit he was driving, 222017, had all 5 running miraculously)

 

[43096]

Did however hear from a driver today at Notts that the reason why 222104 (and eventually other 222s) have been pulled from service so early for ScotRail is that the 222s have been sold and technically are no longer are owned by EMR

The 222s have not been sold and technically have never been owned by EMR.

 

[liamf656]

Ah I wasn’t aware of this, must have been ill-informed at somepoint along the line.

Did however hear from a driver today at Notts that the reason why 222104 (and eventually other 222s) have been pulled from service so early for ScotRail is that the 222s have been sold and technically are no longer are owned by EMR, however due to the delayed release of the 810s they have been told they can keep the 222s for a bit longer, however as soon as a 222 gets brought in for heavy maintenance (which is what happened with 104), it gets nabbed by the leasers. The driver also said that the usual number of engines that a 222 runs on is 3, which is one more than the boundary of 2 that needs to be met before the unit is pulled from service (however the unit he was driving, 222017, had all 5 running miraculously)

Not quite right. The 222s are not owned by any TOC, but leased as mentioned above. And the comment about a unit going in for maintenance to be pinched by the leasing company is false too. There is a specific order the units are returning in. Starting with the ex 4/7 car units, which is why 104 has gone (and 103 will be next)

 

[Amos390]

Not quite right. The 222s are not owned by any TOC, but leased as mentioned above. And the comment about a unit going in for maintenance to be pinched by the leasing company is false too. There is a specific order the units are returning in. Starting with the ex 4/7 car units, which is why 104 has gone (and 103 will be next)

This is what I was told by a driver at the station yesterday, just relaying what I was told

 

[duffield]

1D66 1805 St Pancras International to Nottingham cancelled today when I was sitting on it waiting to depart, we were all chucked off at about 1815 due to an unspecified train fault. I think the failed 222 had already substituted for a failed 810.

Not fancying the 1835 stuffed with two trainloads of passengers on another 5 coach 222, I legged it over to Kings Cross, got the 1833 Newcastle service, changed at Grantham (with about 60s to spare!) and got back to Nottingham 2 minutes before the 1835 arrived ("engage smug mode" as Kryten used to say).

 

[720144]

1D66 1805 St Pancras International to Nottingham cancelled today when I was sitting on it waiting to depart, we were all chucked off at about 1815 due to an unspecified train fault. I think the failed 222 had already substituted for a failed 810.

Not fancying the 1835 stuffed with two trainloads of passengers on another 5 coach 222, I legged it over to Kings Cross, got the 1833 Newcastle service, changed at Grantham (with about 60s to spare!) and got back to Nottingham 2 minutes before the 1835 arrived ("engage smug mode" as Kryten used to say).

According to rtt, the unit that failed was 222015.

 

[notadriver]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. The 222s are a great train but are heavily used, Lumo should use electric trains on a wholly electrified route, with Avanti using only electric trains into Euston seems a backwards step having diesels back there. Also it's not fair for passengers weekends can be horrendously on EMR IC especially when the football or other big events are on, much worse now then with their availability without any having left.

What has happened to the 350s ? Would they have been better for Lumo ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jun 2026 ==

If there are so many engine issues with 222s would it be worth introducing a temporary timetable with a 100 mph speed limit to mitigate engine failures ?

 

[Trainman40083]

What has happened to the 350s ? Would they have been better for Lumo ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jun 2026 ==

If there are so many engine issues with 222s would it be worth introducing a temporary timetable with a 100 mph speed limit to mitigate engine failures ?

I did wonder about the 350/2s. Think they have 3 + 2 seating. Wasn't the lease charge high on those (due to interest rates at the time they were built)?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Lumo had no interest whatsoever in the cl.350 units - they are outer suburban EMU’s.

The cl.222 units were what they were after and that is what they got. Nobody else was going to decide what stock they could lease.

 

[Amos390]

Something I saw earlier (because it made the service I’m in depart Notts late…), would this be a textbook example of a 222 with minimal engines, seemed to have been gradually losing time since London: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W70892/2026-06-19/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Spartacus]

Something I saw earlier (because it made the service I’m in depart Notts late…), would this be a textbook example of a 222 with minimal engines, seemed to have been gradually losing time since London: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W70892/2026-06-19/detailed#allox_id=0

Nah, most of that looks like overtime at stations.

 

[Qwerty133]

With a reduced timetable now in place for the next week requiring significantly fewer units I am hopeful that a number of those niggling faults that aren’t severe enough for a unit to be taken out of traffic will be able to be fixed during this period.

 

[liamf656]

With a reduced timetable now in place for the next week requiring significantly fewer units I am hopeful that a number of those niggling faults that aren’t severe enough for a unit to be taken out of traffic will be able to be fixed during this period.

Fingers crossed, although it'll also be interesting to see how the network copes with the extreme heat that is forecast this week

 

[Amos390]

Fingers crossed, although it'll also be interesting to see how the network copes with the extreme heat that is forecast this week

Maybe the MML will manage somewhat better than other routes due to the reduced timetable, more wiggle room for if something goes wrong

 

[DannyMich2018]

With a reduced timetable now in place for the next week requiring significantly fewer units I am hopeful that a number of those niggling faults that aren’t severe enough for a unit to be taken out of traffic will be able to be fixed during this period.

Or even just run a sole 222 operated service and try and bin the very unreliable 810s for a week- pretty much every day an 810 fails in service, give them some time to sort them out.

 

[800001]

Or even just run a sole 222 operated service and try and bin the very unreliable 810s for a week- pretty much every day an 810 fails in service, give them some time to sort them out.

There is only so many mechanics on duty each day which will
Already have work planned for certain units.
You are not miraculously going to sort out what ever is causing the 810 issues in a few days.

 

[liamf656]

Realtime Trains | Just a moment

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

222007/015 are being brought back to Etches Park for maintenance, having been trapped in London since Friday's incident. They are utilising the ECML for this

 

[Russel]

Realtime Trains | Just a moment

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

222007/015 are being brought back to Etches Park for maintenance, havjng been trapped in London since Friday's incident. They are utilising the ECML for this

Would that be under their own power and who would be driving as I can't imagine EMT drivers sign the ECML?

 

[Amos390]

Would that be under their own power and who would be driving as I can't imagine EMT drivers sign the ECML?

Will be under their own power looking at the timing codes (125moh DMU), not sure about the drivers, maybe EMR supervised by FL who have the route knowledge or something (not sure if that can happen, just a guess).

 

[liamf656]

Would that be under their own power and who would be driving as I can't imagine EMT drivers sign the ECML?

Believe it's an EMR driver providing traction knowledge, and another driver from elsewhere providing route knowledge

Will be under their own power looking at the timing codes (125moh DMU), not sure about the drivers, maybe EMR supervised by FL who have the route knowledge or something (not sure if that can happen, just a guess).

Europhoenix are doing the movement

 

[Amos390]

Believe it's an EMR driver providing traction knowledge, and another driver from elsewhere providing route knowledge

Europhoenix are doing the movement

says on this that it is FreightLiner/Heavy Haul operating the move (https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train/?c= 86322&d=24/06/2026) , does that mean this is wrong or is it just Europhoenix crew inside (alongside the EMR driver providing traction knowledge)

 

[D365]

says on this that it is FreightLiner/Heavy Haul operating the move (https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train/?c= 86322&d=24/06/2026)

Freighliner or Heavy Haul? They are two different entities.