EMR Class 170 updates

[liamf656]

Ex GA and more recently TfW 170273 has entered service on the Matlock route, still in plain white with no branding. It is on the 9:35 departure from Derby and every two hours afterwards

 

[43102EMR]

Realtime Trains - 571N 1104 Haymarket Depot to Crewe C.S.

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2021 ==

Probably the wrong thread to be asking this but what was this movement of 170430 for? Are Scotrail transferring any more 170s to EMR?

 

[fgwrich]

Realtime Trains - 571N 1104 Haymarket Depot to Crewe C.S.

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2021 ==

Probably the wrong thread to be asking this but what was this movement of 170430 for? Are Scotrail transferring any more 170s to EMR?

ScotRail are having overhaul work completed on their 170s by Crewe LNWR / Arriva Traincare.

 

[43102EMR]

ScotRail are having overhaul work completed on their 170s by Crewe LNWR / Arriva Traincare.

Ah ok makes sense, thank you!

 

[cnjb8]

I took a ride on 170420 from Nottingham to Mansfield the other day. The interior was filthy, it really needs a deep clean. It was also boiling hot, do the 170s have air con?

 

[Wolfie]

I took a ride on 170420 from Nottingham to Mansfield the other day. The interior was filthy, it really needs a deep clean. It was also boiling hot, do the 170s have air con?

Class 170s do have aircon. When l rode a WMR version earlier this month it felt almost arctic even during the heatwave. Suggests that the one you were on has problems.

 

[LowLevel]

I took a ride on 170420 from Nottingham to Mansfield the other day. The interior was filthy, it really needs a deep clean. It was also boiling hot, do the 170s have air con?

The interior dates from about 2000 and hasn't had much love for 21 years. It is due to be removed and replaced totally before too long.

The 5 x 170/4s (ex ScotRail units) also have a number of air conditioning defects awaiting attention, I think most if not all of them have at least one carriage with only one air conditioning unit working which means one half of the vehicle will be warmer than the other.

 

[Halish Railway]

It was also boiling hot, do the 170s have air con?

I’ve noticed this quite a lot recently on a lot of different trains and different operators where trains seem to be much hotter inside than I remember them being.

The worst offender I found was a Voyager that I went on from Chesterfield to Leeds via Doncaster that felt like a Sauna, this isn’t helped of course by having to wear a mask.

 

[43055]

News article from the EMR website explains a bit about the Ad Blue trial on 170531.
Rail Minister praises emission reduction technology trialled by EMR | EMR | East Midlands Railway

Rail Minister praises emission reduction technology trialled by EMR​

Monday, 5 July 2021

• Tests show a reduction of 80% in emissions
• 'Greener' train running between Derby and Matlock
• £600k pilot to understand if tech could be used wider in industry

Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris has praised the trial of a new piece of emission reduction technology fitted to a train running between Matlock and Derby.
In partnership with rolling stock company Porterbrook, and emissions specialist, Eminox, EMR has fit a 2-box emissions reduction system to the exhaust of a Class 170 train operating in full passenger usage between Derby and Matlock.
The £600,000 trial, which is funded by EMR, Porterbrook and the Department for Transport, through its funding programme delivered by Innovate UK, uses an oxidation catalyst and a filter to partly remove pollution from nitrogen oxides, hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and particulate matter.
The trial also includes using an innovative low volume hydrostatic oil reservoir developed by Bosch Rexroth that utilises a double pump arrangement and hydrostatic oil to drive the engine cooling fans and the alternator, which in turn provides electrical power to the train.
The technology is capable of delivering similar outputs to the original system, but requires only 16 litres of hydrostatic oil compared to the 200 litres that is currently needed, delivering a significant reduction in space, weight and volume of oil required.
Performance data will be collected from the trial to understand if the technology will be a viable option for wider use in the industry - early indications show that emissions are reduced by up to 80 per cent.
Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris said: “It was fantastic to see one of our previous 'First of a Kind' competition winners in action at Derby station. Harnessing innovations like this will help to make our railways greener and cleaner as we build back better from Covid-19.
“This competition always throws up exciting innovations and the technology I have seen today, along with the winners of this year’s competition, could transform how we travel in future.”
Neil Bamford, Fleet Director at East Midlands Railway, said the company was delighted to be able to support the trial.
He said: “We are constantly looking for opportunities to reduce our environmental impact and deliver greener, cleaner journeys for our passengers. That is why we are excited to support this project and help explore if this innovative technology can have an impact on cutting down pollution.”
Mary Grant, Porterbrook CEO said: “As a rolling stock asset owner and manager, Porterbrook is committed to developing innovative technologies that can help reduce emissions from our diesel fleets. We are particularly pleased to be able to do this by drawing on proven technologies from other sectors.
“Porterbrook believes by partnering with East Midlands Railway and automotive after-treatment specialists, Eminox, we can accelerate the delivery of cleaner and more environmentally friendly trains on Britain’s railway.”
Jonathan Evans, Senior Programme Manager, Eminox, said: “Securing this funding reflects the innovative, first-of-a-kind nature of our project with East Midlands Railway and Porterbrook – and demonstrates our commitment to reducing harmful emissions across multiple sectors to help deliver a greener future.”
“The project will demonstrate the Eminox exhaust after-treatment technology, benefiting air quality and the environment. Given the large number of diesel trains currently operating in the UK, there are enormous possibilities to develop and deploy our technology on a wider scale, benefiting many communities across the country.”

 

[warwickshire]

Update 170515 complete with emr side
branding and front branding looking very smart and very clean in outstanding emr livery is now at tyseley Depot in Birmingham it moved on Friday the 09th July 2021. On a special move 5h66 from derby etches park to tyseley.
So is back with west Midlands railways on loan.

 

[Pippy1505]

Update 170515 complete with emr side
branding and front branding looking very smart and very clean in outstanding emr livery is now at tyseley Depot in Birmingham it moved on Friday the 09th July 2021. On a special move 5h66 from derby etches park to tyseley.
So is back with west Midlands railways on loan.

No gone for an engine change at Tyseley then back to Derby

 

[Chorley Cake]

Does anybody know 511’s current status ?

 

[LowLevel]

Does anybody know 511’s current status ?

Failed last night on a Leicester - Lincoln, moved to Derby on the back of the 2116 Crewe and is now at Etches Park for repairs.

 

[Chorley Cake]

Failed last night on a Leicester - Lincoln, moved to Derby on the back of the 2116 Crewe and is now at Etches Park for repairs.

Thank you.

 

[warwickshire]

No gone for an engine change at Tyseley then back to Derby

Thanks for the information.
Interesting to know.
Thank you

 

[D6975]

So... Retrofit some ASDO then...?

That doesn't help at Lime St though. The problem there is platform sharing, a 6 car won't clear the signal at the platforms used if there's already a Northern train in there.

 

[Jozhua]

Have the 170s been a bit of a disaster? They seem to accelerate slower than the 156's (although they also make a lot less noise), have a reduction in seats and aren't overall designed for local services.

What was really needed was a nationwide sprinter replacement fleet, or possibly tagging on to Northern's 195 order as they are pretty nippy trains for diesels!

I feel like the 170s are going to struggle in a number of ways, but at least the passenger experience is a bit more comfortable (except for during overcrowding...)

 

[Scotrail314209]

Have the 170s been a bit of a disaster? They seem to accelerate slower than the 156's (although they also make a lot less noise), have a reduction in seats and aren't overall designed for local services.

What was really needed was a nationwide sprinter replacement fleet, or possibly tagging on to Northern's 195 order as they are pretty nippy trains for diesels!

I feel like the 170s are going to struggle in a number of ways, but at least the passenger experience is a bit more comfortable (except for during overcrowding...)

I think keeping 170s on local services with low speed can knacker the engines after a while. I think that was a particular issue in Scotland when they were on the likes of Anniesland or Fife Circle services.

 

[Halish Railway]

They seem to accelerate slower than the 156's (although they also make a lot less noise), have a reduction in seats and aren't overall designed for local services.

I feel like the 170s are going to struggle in a number of ways, but at least the passenger experience is a bit more comfortable (except for during overcrowding...)

Whilst I can’t comment on EMR’s 170s, I can say that they keep to Sprinter timings on the hilly Harrogate loop line even though they can’t get into direct drive. The problems associated with using 168s/170s/171s are well documented on this forum, such as Northern’s units overheating on the Harrogate loop, although this shouldn’t be as much as a problem on EMR due to there being less gradients, on average longer distances between stations and more 70mph+ running. How well these units will be maintained long-term remains to be seen.

 

[43102EMR]

I think keeping 170s on local services with low speed can knacker the engines after a while. I think that was a particular issue in Scotland when they were on the likes of Anniesland or Fife Circle services.

They were used on local services back in the Central Trains days, although they did cut some slack with being interchanged on routes such as Liverpool to Norwich.

 

[greyman42]

I think keeping 170s on local services with low speed can knacker the engines after a while.

That being the case, the Northern ones on the York-Harrogate- Leeds services must be suffering.

 

[SteveyBee131]

That being the case, the Northern ones on the York-Harrogate- Leeds services must be suffering.

Northern 170s do a lot more than just the Harrogate loop!

Scarborough - Sheffield, Hull - Halifax, among others

 

[Scotrail314209]

Northern 170s do a lot more than just the Harrogate loop!

Scarborough - Sheffield, Hull - Halifax, among others

I believe Scotrail put the 170s on a mix of stopping and express services. It meant the engines wouldn't die.

I think there was one case where a 170 came down on an express from Aberdeen, trundled about on Anniesland and Cumbernauld before returning to Aberdeen.

The SPT batch I think suffered a bit more, as when they were separate pools they didn't really stray north of Perth.

 

[greyman42]

Northern 170s do a lot more than just the Harrogate loop!

Scarborough - Sheffield, Hull - Halifax, among others

My point was that the Harrogate loop is a one hour slow speed journey, stopping every five minutes.

 

[superkev]

Whilst I can’t comment on EMR’s 170s, I can say that they keep to Sprinter timings on the hilly Harrogate loop line even though they can’t get into direct drive. The problems associated with using 168s/170s/171s are well documented on this forum, such as Northern’s units overheating on the Harrogate loop, although this shouldn’t be as much as a problem on EMR due to there being less gradients, on average longer distances between stations and more 70mph+ running. How well these units will be maintained long-term remains to be seen.

When Northern introduced 170s on the 60mph max Harrogate loop they were reported to be consuming vast quantites of fuel and oil. This was because they didn't go fast enough to get from hydraulic to direct drive. I beleive one unit was fitted with additional instrumentation to investigate the problem.
At the time is was said on here regearing them to say 75mph would be benificial to both there poor accelaration and high fuel consumption. Very little of Northerns west side needs 100mph units.
May be true of EMR too.
K
P.s. is there any sign of the EMR 156 cast offs promised for Northern?

 

[43055]

P.s. is there any sign of the EMR 156 cast offs promised for Northern?

All but two of the 156's are in regular service.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

All but two of the 156's are in regular service.

Which are those two please?

 

[43055]

Which are those two please?

156909 and 156917. Both at Barrow Hill as far as I'm aware.

 

[fodphil]

156909 and 156917. Both at Barrow Hill as far as I'm aware.

Isn't 918 there too?

 

[Jozhua]

EMR should have brought 195s and the 170s should have gone to XC lol.

When Northern introduced 170s on the 60mph max Harrogate loop they were reported to be consuming vast quantites of fuel and oil. This was because they didn't go fast enough to get from hydraulic to direct drive. I beleive one unit was fitted with additional instrumentation to investigate the problem.
At the time is was said on here regearing them to say 75mph would be benificial to both there poor accelaration and high fuel consumption. Very little of Northerns west side needs 100mph units.
May be true of EMR too.
K
P.s. is there any sign of the EMR 156 cast offs promised for Northern?

Speeds have increased on the west I think - Manchester - Preston/Blackpool via Bolton is quite widely 100mph after the electrification.

Thinking about going westward out of Manchester, things can be pretty quick there as well.