EMR Class 158s

[TJDevon]

Has it been decided where these units will go to once they are surplus at EMR?

 

[JonathanH]

Has it been decided where these units will go to once they are surplus at EMR?

Has it been decided they are surplus?

(I agree that the franchise award envisaged 100% 170 operation on EMR regional routes, but that assumed off load of Liverpool to Nottingham.)

The simple answer is that there is nothing in the public domain.

 

[TJDevon]

See caption to yesterday's photo on http://www.railway-centre.com/ . Could be wrong but that site is usually reliable.

 

[JonathanH]

See caption to yesterday's photo on http://www.railway-centre.com/ . Could be wrong but that site is usually reliable.

The quotation on the site says:

The East Midlands Railway Class 158 fleet are due to be replaced by Class 170 'Turbostar' units cascaded from West Midlands Railway soon.

This is correct but there aren't enough 170 vehicles coming to replace all the routes if EMR keep operating Liverpool to Nottingham. Had that route been passed to another operator, all 153s, 156s and 158s would be replaced by 170s. Clearly the 153s have already gone and most but not all of the 156s are going to Northern once more 170s arrive.

That is the uncertainty which still surrounds the 158s. However, there is no plan for the 158s that is in the public domain.

 

[TJDevon]

Ok, understood. So will EMR be able to release some of their 158s and if so roughly how many?

 

[43096]

See caption to yesterday's photo on http://www.railway-centre.com/ . Could be wrong but that site is usually reliable.

Colin Marsden, reliable with information? Oh ha ha ha ha ha ha.

 

[LowLevel]

Ok, understood. So will EMR be able to release some of their 158s and if so roughly how many?

No one knows for certain. The long term fleet strategy isn't even common knowledge within the company, largely I suspect because it's not settled.

 

[QSK19]

Surely they (or some of them) must be staying with EMR in order to have sufficient stock to run Liverpool-Nottingham.

I can’t see other much-discussed possibilities on RF - for example, transferring the 175s, 185s or Northern’s 170s - coming to fruition. I also can’t see new trains being a possibility given that East Midlands non-IC services have always received stock over halfway through the serviceable life and are seemingly not seen as a priority for new stock.

So, the easiest thing would be to use stock that is currently in the fleet - the 158s don’t seem to have anywhere else to go outside of EMR; so availability wouldn’t be an issue.

 

[childwallblues]

When the 810s arrive what will happen to the 222s? Surely they could be used on Liverpool-Nottingham?

 

[QSK19]

When the 810s arrive what will happen to the 222s? Surely they could be used on Liverpool-Nottingham?

Wouldn’t be practical. Amongst other reasons, they’re very “seat inefficient” for the route and are designed to run for long stretches at up to 125mph, something that the route doesn’t allow. I’m sure other members will state additional reasons.

The much-mentioned, done-to-death suggestion for the 222s post-EMR is that they will go to XC.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The quotation on the site says:

This is correct but there aren't enough 170 vehicles coming to replace all the routes if EMR keep operating Liverpool to Nottingham. Had that route been passed to another operator, all 153s, 156s and 158s would be replaced by 170s. Clearly the 153s have already gone and most but not all of the 156s are going to Northern once more 170s arrive.

That is the uncertainty which still surrounds the 158s. However, there is no plan for the 158s that is in the public domain.

Wasn't that before the Southern 171s were planned to go over though, and they planned to transfer the Southern ones as a result of retaining it? Now, of course, it will be Transport for Wales 170s instead, but the point is wasn't the plan to transfer Liverpool to Nottingham back when it was just the WMT and limited ScotRail ones coming over?

 

[Sleepy]

EMR desperately need to do something - constant messages about full & standing 2 car formations on Norwich route this week !

 

[swt_passenger]

Wasn't that before the Southern 171s were planned to go over though, and they planned to transfer the Southern ones as a result of retaining it? Now, of course, it will be Transport for Wales 170s instead, but the point is wasn't the plan to transfer Liverpool to Nottingham back when it was just the WMT and limited ScotRail ones coming over?

AIUI from the many previous discussions about this the original “all 170” fleet plan came before the decision to retain Liverpool - Nottingham.