Empty Motorways

[Cowley]

Given that a select group of motorists seem to be taking empty roads as a carte blanche signal to drive like twerps, what kind of message does removing speed limits send?!

There’s been some very fast drivers shooting past our house this last week. I’d love to see a speed check vehicle outside for a day picking a few up on camera.

 

[AM9]

Wasn't the motorway speed limit brought in as a fuel saving measure during the 1970s oil price shock?

No, it was brought in in 1967 as a safety measure.
The speed limit was temporarily reduced to 50mph during the '70s oil crisis.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wasn't the motorway speed limit brought in as a fuel saving measure during the 1970s oil price shock?

Sort of. It was a "temporary and emergency" speed limit introduced in 1965 that- quelle surprise- the government never quite got around to getting rid of. Funny that.

The fuel crisis saw it reduced, and the lower "temporary" 60mph limit also- quelle surprise- never got rescinded.

If you think higher speeds are there for "enjoyment", perhaps you shouldn't be behind the wheel at all, ever.

Living in a country with no national speed limit is very enjoyable, since you ask. Fast =/= reckless.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Given most of our motorways are now looking like concrete playgrounds in half term, you'd think Grant Shapps would rally the Highways agencies together and get vital roadworks done on key routes while there is no traffic disruption. The maintenance workers can work in a safer environment and I'm sure they would be glad to enjoy being allowed to work as usual. The M60 around Manchester is horrific at the best of times so the lockdown has opened up good opportunities to get essential roadworks done.

CJ

 

[Tetchytyke]

you'd think Grant Shapps would rally the Highways agencies together and get vital roadworks done on key routes while there is no traffic disruption.

Social distancing, though. You'd have a job on arguing it is essential construction.

 

[yorksrob]

Given most of our motorways are now looking like concrete playgrounds in half term, you'd think Grant Shapps would rally the Highways agencies together and get vital roadworks done on key routes while there is no traffic disruption. The maintenance workers can work in a safer environment and I'm sure they would be glad to enjoy being allowed to work as usual. The M60 around Manchester is horrific at the best of times so the lockdown has opened up good opportunities to get essential roadworks done.

CJ

Last weekend there seemed to be about three motorways closed for maintenance. Not sure whether this was pre-planned though.

 

[devonexpress]

The temptation to max it up to 100mph was there but I kept to a more reasonable speed despite the wonderful driving conditions.

I saw people doing that when I used to commute up until the lockdown, One reason when offered furlough I took it, people who do that are stupid, one it means your more likely to cause an accident, secondly your taking vital medical and police resources, and thirdly you've got more chance of catching this virus as you'd need to be hospitalised. Personally I think anyone caught doing over the speed limit by 10mph should have their licence stripped for good.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

Last weekend there seemed to be about three motorways closed for maintenance. Not sure whether this was pre-planned though.

I hope they provided a train replacement service.

 

[yorksrob]

I hope they provided a train replacement service.

I would certainly hope so

 

[Goofle]

Given that a select group of motorists seem to be taking empty roads as a carte blanche signal to drive like twerps, what kind of message does removing speed limits send?!

who mentioned driving like a twerp?
Empty roads can also mean not sat stewing in a jam for hours on end, rather than anything else? I’d rather my commute took three hours at A steady constant 70mph as opposed to five hours ranging from zero to 70 mph..

 

[Jamesrob637]

Given most of our motorways are now looking like concrete playgrounds in half term, you'd think Grant Shapps would rally the Highways agencies together and get vital roadworks done on key routes while there is no traffic disruption. The maintenance workers can work in a safer environment and I'm sure they would be glad to enjoy being allowed to work as usual. The M60 around Manchester is horrific at the best of times so the lockdown has opened up good opportunities to get essential roadworks done.

CJ

The M6 from J13-J15 was meant to have massive progress done this summer. It's already a 60 limit from just north of J14 up to J15, thereby lowering journey times by a couple of minutes over previously. However, this current situation may mean far less work can take place due to social distancing, thereby prolonging the works beyond winter 2021/2022.

 

[Butts]

The M6 from J13-J15 was meant to have massive progress done this summer. It's already a 60 limit from just north of J14 up to J15, thereby lowering journey times by a couple of minutes over previously. However, this current situation may mean far less work can take place due to social distancing, thereby prolonging the works beyond winter 2021/2022.

The bit by Stafford ?

A right pain in the arse last weekend , 10 miles + of 50mph limit after effortly cruising all the way from Scotland !!

 

[Jamesrob637]

The bit by Stafford ?

A right pain in the arse last weekend , 10 miles + of 50mph limit after effortly cruising all the way from Scotland !!

That's the one. Going from where I live near Manchester down South isn't too bad as it's within the first hour of my journey so I'm glad they've eased the restrictions a little coming back up North. But from Scotland that must be a bit painful especially if you're travelling to the Midlands and within the last hour or so of your journey.

 

[DerekC]

The bit by Stafford ?

A right pain in the arse last weekend , 10 miles + of 50mph limit after effortly cruising all the way from Scotland !!

Let's see now - 10 miles at 50 mph = 12 minutes. 10 miles at 70 mph = 8.5 minutes. So the "right pain in the arse " added about 7 minutes to your journey of 700 miles, which is likely to have been considerably less than 1% of the journey time. Hardly worth getting excited about!

Not a motorway issue, but I have seen three examples of spectacularly illegal overtaking in my last couple of trips out to the shops. One involving an Audi accelerating up to about 60mph in a 30 zone to overtake a line of traffic and another an idiot in a white van overtaking at a well-signed blind hump in a road with double white lines which has been the subject of several fatal accidents in the past. Personally I am driving slower because the one place I don't want to end up in right now is A&E.

 

[Butts]

Let's see now - 10 miles at 50 mph = 12 minutes. 10 miles at 70 mph = 8.5 minutes. So the "right pain in the arse " added about 7 minutes to your journey of 700 miles, which is likely to have been considerably less than 1% of the journey time. Hardly worth getting excited about!

Not normally I agree, but when you have been cruising unhindered at speed for 250 odd miles it's like you are suddenly crawling. A couple of miles would be bearable but 10 + is a ball ache !!

 

[Steddenm]

Bit of an anomaly at a Tesco petrol garage near me today.

That garage has two different type of pumps, pay-at-pump (PaP) and the more classic pay-at-kiosk (PaK) ones. (They started to install new pumps three weeks ago but with everything going on, obviously stopped)

Anyway, at the PaP machines were charging 99.8p/L for unleaded, yet the PaK were 103.9p/L.

Mentioned it when paying to be told that they can't alter the price there as the PaP new pumps are centrally changed and the PaK pumps can no longer go below 100p/L.

Is this the norm or has somebody just f'd up?

 

[Deafdoggie]

In the old days (80's) when fuel used to be hiked by quite a bit in budgets our tanks had to be dead full on Budget Day. Duty payable goes up at 6pm the day of the announcement and bang you sell it at the new price having paid the pre-budget price for it and make a killing.

But surely only the price of the duty went up, not the actual petrol? Therefore the retailer makes no extra.

 

[C J Snarzell]

The M6 from J13-J15 was meant to have massive progress done this summer. It's already a 60 limit from just north of J14 up to J15, thereby lowering journey times by a couple of minutes over previously. However, this current situation may mean far less work can take place due to social distancing, thereby prolonging the works beyond winter 2021/2022.

That stretch of motorway has been plaqued with problems for many years. The whole M6 corridor through Cheshire & Staffordshire is just horrific - journey times are doubled, there are collisions/incidents everyday and the motorway cannot handle the volume of traffic connecting the Midlands with the North West anymore.

The stretch of the A56 running between the M56 & M6 was turned into a mini motorway about a decade ago to accommodate the rise of traffic commuting from Manchester & the rapidly expanding Airport. However, once traffic reach the M6 they are on a hiding to nothing.

There were plans to turn the whole of the M6 between Birmingham & Preston into a smart motorway which would mean the hard shoulder being turned into a 4th lane at peak times. The whole project would take years & millions of pounds of government money to upgrade.

In light of the economic crisis looming over us all now, its very unlikely any motorway projects like this will be considered in the immediate future.

CJ

 

[Butts]

But surely only the price of the duty went up, not the actual petrol? Therefore the retailer makes no extra.

I'm not quite sure how it worked but I suspect the duty became payable when the fuel left the depot - a bit like "bonding" with Spirits. The Chancellor always used to announce a time the new rate would apply in the Budget - ie "6pm tonight". Perhaps any fuel that left before then carried the old rate of duty and hence already "paid for" at that rate could be sold at a price including the new rate with us trousering the difference.

When you were talking about say a 7p difference on thousands of gallons both underground and in the tanks at multiple outlets it could make quite a difference. The margin has always been quite small when it comes to profit on the selling price of a gallon of fuel.


A Tanker used to hold about 6000 gallons so at 7p that's £420 !!! quite a lot in the 80's !!

 

[corfield]

There were plans to turn the whole of the M6 between Birmingham & Preston into a smart motorway which would mean the hard shoulder being turned into a 4th lane at peak times. The whole project would take years & millions of pounds of government money to upgrade.

In light of the economic crisis looming over us all now, its very unlikely any motorway projects like this will be considered in the immediate future.

CJ

Going back to the early 2000s, the region was leaflet bombed by the Govt asking what people wanted to be done as the M6 was horrific then for the same reasons.

Can’t quite remember, but basically do nothing / limited improvements / new toll expressway running parallel.

Strangely a non-toll expressway wasn’t on the list!

it seemed the last was the “preferred plan” in terms of how the leaflet spun it but I assume it had got little public support and so nothing went any further. Which was probably the real purpose of the entire exercise.

 

[ABB125]

Going back to the early 2000s, the region was leaflet bombed by the Govt asking what people wanted to be done as the M6 was horrific then for the same reasons.

Can’t quite remember, but basically do nothing / limited improvements / new toll expressway running parallel.

Strangely a non-toll expressway wasn’t on the list!

it seemed the last was the “preferred plan” in terms of how the leaflet spun it but I assume it had got little public support and so nothing went any further. Which was probably the real purpose of the entire exercise.

I believe the plan was to build a 2-lane "express" carriageway parallel to the existing 3-lane carriageway in each direction. The new section would have had limited junctions (the idea being that long-distance traffic such as Birmingham-Manchester would travel in the express lanes, with more "local" traffic using the older lanes (and not having access to the express lanes)). Here is a drawing:

 

[Bobdogs]

.9p, should have been legislated against years ago.

In the days before websites kept track of such things, we'd get a few calls a day asking how much our unleaded or diesel was priced at. We'd never know if it was a customer or competitor and what have you got to gain by refusing to say? It's on a great big sign outside anyway. The number for the garage was in the phone book and printed on our till receipts.

I can remember the day we were first asked to price over 99.9p which had been the going rate for quite sometime because there was reluctance all round to be the first to increase it. We had been sent instructions on how to amend the sign as it was wasn't designed for three digits (they were on individual blinds that had to be wound up or down). If I remember correctly we had to literally rip the decimal point off, squash up the digits as best we could and stick on a small ".9" that we'd been sent which meant until we got a digital sign (after I left) prices always had to be .9p (which of course they had been for as long as anyone could remember anyway)

.9p.Why still allowed. No such currency.

 

[corfield]

It would have been a wonderful thing! Millions of people would massively appreciate that setup, the benefits to their lives in saved time, to the economy and to people’s health would be enormous.

But of course it had to be toll, as that reinforced the public accepting tolled motorways generally as per New Labour’s desire to rinse every bit of tax they could. Which of course they didn’t and never would.

It was “all or nothing”, and as usual from such occasions - we got nothing.

 

[scotrail158713]

.9p, should have been legislated against years ago.
.9p.Why still allowed. No such currency.

That has always bemused me actually - such a price surely does not exist?

 

[corfield]

Buy one litre and see how they do it!

 

[Ianno87]

It would have been a wonderful thing! Millions of people would massively appreciate that setup, the benefits to their lives in saved time, to the economy and to people’s health would be enormous.

But of course it had to be toll, as that reinforced the public accepting tolled motorways generally as per New Labour’s desire to rinse every bit of tax they could. Which of course they didn’t and never would.

It was “all or nothing”, and as usual from such occasions - we got nothing.

Or it would all be filled up and back at square one by now... Where all this traffic would get deposited once it crashes into the West Midlands / North West is also a mystery. Given that the M6 past Wednesbury/Walsall gets snarled up daily today with just the one M6 throwing traffic at it...

 

[corfield]

Or it would all be filled up and back at square one by now... Where all this traffic would get deposited once it crashes into the West Midlands / North West is also a mystery. Given that the M6 past Wednesbury/Walsall gets snarled up daily today with just the one M6 throwing traffic at it...

No it wouldn’t - after-all they are only still doing improvements far less ambitious than this.

So a better improvement than that would be fine.

This “roads fill up” meme makes the same mistake as the other extreme of dualling everything - no growth is infinite and we long ago plateaud on car usage.

But, you wait til we get driverless cars - imagine the commuting options when you can sleep/work in the car...

 

[Tetchytyke]

That has always bemused me actually - such a price surely does not exist?

It does if you buy multiples of ten.

And if the got rid they'd round up, and that'd add 54p to a tank of fuel for me