Emergency Brake Application on a Pendolino

[leomartin125]

Hi Guys,

My train had the emergency brakes applied today (23rd July) just outside Wembley heading into London, I was on a Pendolino. The train crossed onto the relief lines as the ML must have been closed and we sped up like normal after the junction, then literally 5 seconds later there was a big jolt and the train very quickly decreased speed right to a standstill. Is this the emergency brakes? And why would they have applied? The train was stationary for 5 minutes before we started moving again, so I'm guessing we didn't hit anything...

Thanks,
Leo

PS - I was on 1M16 arriving into Euston at 2015.

 

[najaB]

Is this the emergency brakes? And why would they have applied?

Sounds like it was. Many possible reasons.

At a guess, someone seen trespassing on the track.

 

[AlterEgo]

Could be anything. Maybe a signal reversion.

Pick a reason, any reason.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[driver_m]

Could be anything, probably an idea not to identify the train in question though. It'll already probably be logged on company systems without our amateur sleuths on here trying to judge and sentence what happened.

 

[Moonshot]

EBAs are a lot more common than the average rail enthusiast realises

 

[Rich McLean]

Could even be something like a faulty DSD pedal that won't cancel without a decent kick or the driver missed cancelling it. Like AlterEgo says, could be anyone one of a million things.

Wouldn't be the DSD as if the driver has recently used the power handle or brake (as would be the case here) then the vigilance wouldn't sound that quick.

 

[Nippy]

It was indeed logged yesterday.

 

[leomartin125]

It was indeed logged yesterday.

What was it Nippy?

 

[GB]

Wouldn't be the DSD as if the driver has recently used the power handle or brake (as would be the case here) then the vigilance wouldn't sound that quick.

DSD and DVD are two heads of the same coin. It's entirely possible to get a brake application if the driver has removed, readjusted or changed his foot for a second and the pedal doesn't cancel.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[Crossover]

The train crossed onto the relief lines as the ML must have been closed and we sped up like normal after the junction, then literally 5 seconds later there was a big jolt and the train very quickly decreased speed right to a standstill. Is this the emergency brakes?

I don't think I have experienced an emergency stop on a Pendolino before, but my experience of EBA's in general is that they are mostly characterised by a sudden jolt as you stop, as the driver hasn't/can't let off the brake to give a smooth stop. The actual brake force until then is not much different to service braking, just that it never lets off

 

[LeylandLen]

Would the same things apply ( EBA ) if a passenger pulled the 'communication' chord? Is it still called that , ie the train having to stop immediately for possible emergency ?

 

[leomartin125]

Just heard from Virgin Trains on Twitter that it was a 'signal malfunction' on the approach to Wembley Central station. Must have crossed onto the slow, got a green and then sped up to find the following signal red - the faulty signal. Would explain the sudden EBA and also why we were only stationary for a short amount of time, menaing it couldn't have been due to hitting someone or an animal for instance.

That means this was a category B SPAD - "where the signal reverted to danger in front of the train due to an equipment failure or signaller error and the train was unable to stop before passing the signal."

 

[tsr]

They didn't necessarily pass one at danger! Could have been a signal dropping down in front of the driver from green to a more restrictive aspect, not red; or a wrong route indicated by the signal sequence (I don't sign that route though, so I don't know if that's possible right there). I've known drivers to put the brakes into emergency for pretty much all and any varieties of irregular change of aspect (CoA), had trains held up due to a flicker on an Off indicator at a station, you name it.

 

[TonyMitchell]

That means this was a category B SPAD -

Who said anything about there being a SPAD?

 

[najaB]

That means this was a category B SPAD - "where the signal reverted to danger in front of the train due to an equipment failure or signaller error and the train was unable to stop before passing the signal."

Only if the train actually passed a signal at danger.

 

[AlterEgo]

Virgin categorically denied there was a SPAD on Twitter. (Funnily enough to a user also with 125 in their handle)

https://twitter.com/virgintrains/status/756948827790245888
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Virgin also haven't spoken to anyone today about "signal", "malfunction", "SPAD", or any related terms...

 

[leomartin125]

Virgin categorically denied there was a SPAD on Twitter. (Funnily enough to a user also with 125 in their handle)

https://twitter.com/virgintrains/status/756948827790245888
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Virgin also haven't spoken to anyone today about "signal", "malfunction", "SPAD", or any related terms...

So what your saying is, because of the low speed after crossing the junction at Wembley, our train managed to stop with emergency brakes for the faulty red signal at Wembley?

 

[AlterEgo]

So what your saying is, because of the low speed after crossing the junction at Wembley, our train managed to stop with emergency brakes for the faulty red signal at Wembley?

Um, no.

What I'm saying is:

1) Virgin said there was no SPAD.
2) The answer was given last night, relating to the same train, on Twitter.
3) Virgin have not spoken to anyone today about that incident.

I make no other conclusions because I have no other info.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Just heard from Virgin Trains on Twitter that it was a 'signal malfunction' on the approach to Wembley Central station. Must have crossed onto the slow, got a green and then sped up to find the following signal red - the faulty signal. Would explain the sudden EBA and also why we were only stationary for a short amount of time, menaing it couldn't have been due to hitting someone or an animal for instance.

That means this was a category B SPAD - "where the signal reverted to danger in front of the train due to an equipment failure or signaller error and the train was unable to stop before passing the signal."

Category B SPAD is now a Technical SPAR - Signal Passed at Red. The only SPAD now is the old Category A SPAD.

 

[cf111]

Would the same things apply ( EBA ) if a passenger pulled the 'communication' chord? Is it still called that , ie the train having to stop immediately for possible emergency ?

On more modern stock, the emergency button (Passcomm) connects you to the driver's cab to speak to them rather than just stopping the train there and then. If the driver doesn't respond to the Passcomm being used within a certain amount of time (seconds) then the brakes apply.

On older stock the brakes would apply straight away.

 

[Moonshot]

Would the same things apply ( EBA ) if a passenger pulled the 'communication' chord? Is it still called that , ie the train having to stop immediately for possible emergency ?

The last one I had was indeed that.....in the middle of nowhere. Luckily I was on the ball and realised what it was straight away, so a quick re set and then we were rolling again.

 

[najaB]

So what your saying is, because of the low speed after crossing the junction at Wembley, our train managed to stop with emergency brakes for the faulty red signal at Wembley?

Do you know for a fact that there was a 'faulty red signal'? As noted above, even if we take as gospel that there was a signalling irregularity, it could have been a green followed by single yellow in a four aspect area, a route indicator not lit/incorrectly shown or even an unlit signal.

You can't assume that (a) there was an unexpected red signal; or (b) that your train passed it.

 

[driver_m]

Well it's only something like 15 or 20 over the reliefs anyway.(don't sign them but have been conducted over them) I knew this would end up as a speculation thread! If the Twitter feed said a signal problem then that's what it is.

 

[The Planner]

He is talking Western speak, I assume it went Fast to Slow at North Wembley which is a 50mph crossover.

 

[neilb62]

He is talking Western speak, I assume it went Fast to Slow at North Wembley which is a 50mph crossover.

The lines that cross under the Mainline from the Up and Dn Slow near Sudbury Sdgs to West London Jn are called the Willesden Relief Lines.

 

[Nippy]

Wouldn't be going there in a 390 though. As someone who has been bollocked for social media stuff, I'm not prepared to say anything else about it I'm afraid.

 

[neilb62]

Wouldn't be going there in a 390 though. As someone who has been bollocked for social media stuff, I'm not prepared to say anything else about it I'm afraid.

It's a usual diversion for VT, only Euston Drivers sign it though....

 

[Nippy]

Fair enough, didn't know they went that way.