Ember: Electric coach service

[Porty]

The rail links from Edinburgh to Newcastle are so good (both frequency, speed and capacity) that a coach operation is bound to be seen as inferior. I've always wondered whether a route serving tourist areas not currently easily accessible by train might find a market. For example, Edinburgh - Carlisle - Rheged - Keswick - Grasmere - Ambleside - Bowness - maybe Lancaster or Carnforth - Blackpool.

Edinburgh, the Lakes and Blackpool all being big tourist markets. Looking ahead a couple of years when Center Parcs opens in the Borders an A7 routing from Edinburgh to Carlisle might work very well. Getting long distance visitors from down south being able to connect to a quality electric coach operation might be a good market for Center Parcs.

 

[nick291]

The rail links from Edinburgh to Newcastle are so good (both frequency, speed and capacity) that a coach operation is bound to be seen as inferior. I've always wondered whether a route serving tourist areas not currently easily accessible by train might find a market. For example, Edinburgh - Carlisle - Rheged - Keswick - Grasmere - Ambleside - Bowness - maybe Lancaster or Carnforth - Blackpool.

Edinburgh, the Lakes and Blackpool all being big tourist markets. Looking ahead a couple of years when Center Parcs opens in the Borders an A7 routing from Edinburgh to Carlisle might work very well. Getting long distance visitors from down south being able to connect to a quality electric coach operation might be a good market for Center Parcs.

I wonder if Carlisle to Glasgow could work if it went via Dumfries and Hamilton?

 

[CMBS]

Borders Buses is registered to go there with the X95, so I would have thought so.

Most journeys only run from Edinburgh to Hawick, or Galashiels to Carlisle so the full Edinburgh-Carlisle route doesn't really exist and doesn't get used as such.

Otherwise, only way to get to Edinburgh and Glasgow directly from Carlisle is via Flixbus or NatEx both of which are highly infrequent and neither of them accept NECs to Carlisle so maybe there's an opportunity there

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2026 ==

I wonder if Carlisle to Glasgow could work if it went via Dumfries and Hamilton?

Hamilton could work but Dumfries would add unnecessary journey time.

 

[Megafuss]

The template for Ember has been max of around 4h30 hours end to end as it's simple to schedule. That's fine for internal Scotland trips, but not great for cross-border options.

 

[Spsf3232]

The template for Ember has been max of around 4h30 hours end to end as it's simple to schedule. That's fine for internal Scotland trips, but not great for cross-border options.

You also need to remember that's round trip between charging. Currently vehicles are doing an E8 to Glasgow, E14 Carmyle, E14 Glasgow and E3 Dundee arriving around 20% charge on a good day. Similar on the Edinburgh route

Average of 250 to 300 miles on one charge. Until Livingston and Glasgow hubs are operational this means that all routes are based around a round trip from Oban/Fort William/ Inverness/ Perth and Dundee

 

[NorthOxonian]

The rail links from Edinburgh to Newcastle are so good (both frequency, speed and capacity) that a coach operation is bound to be seen as inferior. I've always wondered whether a route serving tourist areas not currently easily accessible by train might find a market. For example, Edinburgh - Carlisle - Rheged - Keswick - Grasmere - Ambleside - Bowness - maybe Lancaster or Carnforth - Blackpool.

Edinburgh, the Lakes and Blackpool all being big tourist markets. Looking ahead a couple of years when Center Parcs opens in the Borders an A7 routing from Edinburgh to Carlisle might work very well. Getting long distance visitors from down south being able to connect to a quality electric coach operation might be a good market for Center Parcs.

Anything going via the central Lakes will have terrible reliability during the summer season when traffic can really be brutal on that stretch. It would make the end to end journey time extremely long.

I don't think the idea is terrible but you'd probably only want to stick to one or the other (serving Kendal might be possible if you go to Blackpool; for the Lakes route it could make a fairly natural terminus also).

 

[Porty]

Anything going via the central Lakes will have terrible reliability during the summer season when traffic can really be brutal on that stretch. It would make the end to end journey time extremely long.

I don't think the idea is terrible but you'd probably only want to stick to one or the other (serving Kendal might be possible if you go to Blackpool; for the Lakes route it could make a fairly natural terminus also).

You're probably right. Terminating in south Lakes may be more sensible. Congestion issues, especially around Ambleside, could be a problem, particularly for northbound travel because of the knock-on effects on the latter part of the journey. Less of an issue when you're near the terminus. The National Park may also be keen for electric coaches.

 

[Sealink]

Given the sour grapes, If Ember launch something like a Large/Gourock/Wemyss Bay to Glasgow service, I want to see live pictures from McGills towers

Tell me about the sour grapes? Are McGills unhappy?

Oh, found it!

McGill's Group to Seek Legal Advice as Ministers Reject £16M Bid to Boost Scottish-Built Electric Buses

McGill’s Group has voiced concern at the Scottish Government after its £4.3 million bid to expand its electric bus fleet was rejected.

www.mcgillsbuses.co.uk

McGill’s Group said it is now taking legal advice in a bid to force a rethink by the Scottish Government and its agency, Transport Scotland, over the inappropriate allocation of funding.

 

[N1]

For Scotzeb 3 funded coaches, a condition of the funding is:

11.All vehicles acquired through this scheme must be operated in Scotland by a licensed PSV operator on registered local bus services for a minimum of seven (7) consecutive years from entry into service.

Now it doesn't say wholly in Scotland but I think a reasonable position for cross border services would be that they are registered local services when operating in Scotland. This is just the guidance document no the actual legal position.

For Scotzeb 2 funded coaches the condition is:

17.The vehicles acquired through this scheme must be operated in Scotland by a PSV operator or provide a community transport service under a Section 19 or Section 22 permit for a minimum of 7 consecutive years.

As mentioned, Scotzeb 1 only required minimum of 5 consecutive years on local registered services, so they will be approaching completing this. The condition isn't from when the vehicles were registered or delivered, but when they first started working registered local services.

However the first batch of vehicles from phase 1 are TCe12s which have a shorter range than the newer GTe14s, so I don't think long distance cross-border services are on the cards yet.

 

[318266]

Given the requirement for them to be used on registered local bus services, I question if Ember will start registering their routes further in advance in order to comply with the terms of their new vehicle set.

 

[N1]

Given the requirement for them to be used on registered local bus services, I question if Ember will start registering their routes further in advance in order to comply with the terms of their new vehicle set.

It is an interesting position. Again, guidance document doesn't say they have to be used only on registered services. Not registering them may just delay the 7 year period?

Not fully relevant to Ember but an interesting example would be a bus operator that doesn't run Sunday or evening services, would they be prohibiting from offering a bus as private hire at other times (e.g. rail replacement). I don't think they would.

 

[alphabravo43]

It is an interesting position. Again, guidance document doesn't say they have to be used only on registered services. Not registering them may just delay the 7 year period?

Not fully relevant to Ember but an interesting example would be a bus operator that doesn't run Sunday or evening services, would they be prohibiting from offering a bus as private hire at other times (e.g. rail replacement). I don't think they would.

It would be interesting to know the answer though, as Ember do offer private hire on their website.

 

[N1]

It would be interesting to know the answer though, as Ember do offer private hire on their website.

It would be. But complicated by the fact ScotZeb 2 funding (which Ember also got) allowed private hire only, as well as registered services, but both limited to 'in Scotland'.

 

[Highland050261]

They have been over the border as Private Hires.

 

[nick291]

Tell me about the sour grapes? Are McGills unhappy?

When are they ever happy?

 

[Stan Drews]

When are they ever happy?

Usually quite happy. Disagreeing with politicians and government policies and decisions doesn’t mean you have to be unhappy.

 

[318266]

Usually quite happy. Disagreeing with politicians and government policies and decisions doesn’t mean you have to be unhappy.

I think, as ever, people only ever notice the negatives, especially as modern social media algorithms promote the negatives as a means of user retention, as users will spend more time deliberating and debating over the negatives than they tend to when things go right!

 

[danielhogg2005]

The E13 (Lost Shore - Edinburgh) route has been registered to be cancelled on 13th May.

Link: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/642233/

E13 - Edinburgh to Lost Shore Suft Resort via Haymarket, Corstorphine​

Registration numberPM2025892/12TypeLimited StopSupported by subsidy?NoAuthoritiesThe City of Edinburgh Council

Timetables​

• E13Between Edinburgh and Lost Shore

Variation history​

1. • Received11 Mar 26
   • Effective13 May 26
   • 
     
   • Cancellation
     

 

[Cowley]

Can the side discussion about McGills be left where it is please? It’ll just end up dragging the thread off course.

Thanks.

 

[paravostok]

The E17 (Aberdeen to Perth coastal route) has just been acnnounced, beginning operations on the 8th April.

"
From 8 April, we're launching a new route connecting Perth and Aberdeen via the coast. Initially, it will serve Dundee, Arbroath, St Cyrus and Stonehaven with 10 return services per day, increasing to 13 from 13 April. We'll be increasing services further and adding in lots more stops in a few weeks — details to follow very soon.


Tickets from Arbroath to Dundee are only £4.05 and from Perth to Dundee are £4.85 when you book online.


You can see the full route and stops on our live map. Tickets are on sale now."

 

[NorthOxonian]

The E17 (Aberdeen to Perth coastal route) has just been acnnounced, beginning operations on the 8th April.

"
From 8 April, we're launching a new route connecting Perth and Aberdeen via the coast. Initially, it will serve Dundee, Arbroath, St Cyrus and Stonehaven with 10 return services per day, increasing to 13 from 13 April. We'll be increasing services further and adding in lots more stops in a few weeks — details to follow very soon.


Tickets from Arbroath to Dundee are only £4.05 and from Perth to Dundee are £4.85 when you book online.


You can see the full route and stops on our live map. Tickets are on sale now."

The timetable from the 13th April looks broadly hourly at peak times and every two hours off peak. There's no overnight service - first departures in both directions are at around 6am and last departures at about 11pm.

Montrose seems a fairly obvious omission from the set of initial stops but presumably it'll come when they increase the number of stopping places - looking at the distances, it seems like Arbroath to Montrose is just under 15 miles so would have needed full registration right away.

 

[overthewater]

All that going to have to happen is a few X7 break down and don't appear and the passengers will switch to Ember. How will is Stagecoach cooping with Ember on the Forfar and Brechin route? has its no20 suffered?

 

[Spsf3232]

It will be the death of the X7! The underinvestment on that route is chronically bad now and everyone could see Ember was coming but Stagecoach kept making a total mess of it!

If ember can up the service to hourly throughout the day I can see the X7 being withdrawn eventually and the suspected Yutongs for the X7 will go elsewhere

 

[Strathtay 260]

If ember can up the service to hourly throughout the day I can see the X7 being withdrawn eventually and the suspected Yutongs for the X7 will go elsewhere

I've heard they will run 18 services per day eventually, probably when they add the new stops.

 

[route101]

With more coaches, I wonder if they will launch a direct Glasgow to Aberdeen service?

South of Scotland is different as there is not really any express coach services apart from the 900 and X74.

 

[overthewater]

It will be the death of the X7! The underinvestment on that route is chronically bad now and everyone could see Ember was coming but Stagecoach kept making a total mess of it!

If ember can up the service to hourly throughout the day I can see the X7 being withdrawn eventually and the suspected Yutongs for the X7 will go elsewhere

Stagecoach are investing in brand new coaches for the X7, However if they do turn up pretty quick, I wouldn't rule it out the X7 just yet.

It's mad the government has now paid for brand new coaches to operate a two routes in competition with each other.

With more coaches, I wonder if they will launch a direct Glasgow to Aberdeen service?

South of Scotland is different as there is not really any express coach services apart from the 900 and X74.

Why is Ember reluctant to operate in the south of Scotland even the Central belt? They is plenty of new routes in Ayrshire, lanarkshire, etc etc etc

 

[Jordan1296]

With more coaches, I wonder if they will launch a direct Glasgow to Aberdeen service?

South of Scotland is different as there is not really any express coach services apart from the 900 and X74.

It would need to be a bit more direct for it to draw folk in. Perth to Aberdeen is already over 3 hours.

 

[Strathtay 260]

With more coaches, I wonder if they will launch a direct Glasgow to Aberdeen service?

I hope so but oddly still no word on that.

the suspected Yutongs for the X7 will go elsewhere

TCe12?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

TCe12?

That would be a significant drop in capacity compared to the Interdecks so I'd doubt it

 

[Strathtay 260]

That would be a significant drop in capacity compared to the Interdecks so I'd doubt it

That's exactly what I was thinking to be honest