Ember: Electric coach service

[Porty]

I'm not sure if running it as a standard service would be permitted as the council may see it as competing with their subsidised local service.

Permitted by whom? I thought pretty much anyone could operate any service providing they met safety standards and gave the requisite notice to the Traffic Commissioner. In this case presumably also the consent of Lost Resort as they'd be using a private road at the end of the route (just like at the airport).

 

[Spsf3232]

I'm not sure if running it as a standard service would be permitted as the council may see it as competing with their subsidised local service.

It would be better perfectly acceptable to register it as a local route. One of the main reasons behind the lost shore route is they are using the chargers there for topping up vehicles on the E9

 

[computerSaysNo]

Permitted by whom? I thought pretty much anyone could operate any service providing they met safety standards and gave the requisite notice to the Traffic Commissioner. In this case presumably also the consent of Lost Resort as they'd be using a private road at the end of the route (just like at the airport).

Well I suppose they could register it, but then if the council evaluated it as competing with their subsidised service they would be obligated to discontinue the subsidised service.

 

[Spsf3232]

Well I suppose they could register it, but then if the council evaluated it as competing with their subsidised service they would be obligated to discontinue the subsidised service.

Very much doubt they would remove the subsidised service as this will run approx every 2 hours from Edinburgh in line with the E1 Dundee and E9 times when buses swap over

 

[gingerheid]

I'm a bit late, but just looking at the Edinburgh - Inverness timetable. It's always remarkabe how overnight their timetables are. I had always thought slower refueling of electric vehicles would have meant that electric buses were a threat to evening services, but Ember are certainly out to prove that it's actually all about that if your bus effectively comes with a significant infrastructure cost and a large prepayment against all future fuel use, you need to keep it moving!

Edit: Just looking at the accounts. Genuinely fascinating. I see that they've spent £5.3m on "hub facilities and equipment". When you consider that a 2 year old Neoplan Tourliner complete with Flixbus livery is "only" going to cost you about £.25m, the extent of the "fuel prepayment" and value of those government grants is really really clear. I wonder if it would have been fairer to the market if the Scottish Government had taken control of putting a charging network in place! (Yes, I know it's not a realistic thought too...)

I assume Ember will be moving into the shorter distance market at roughly the same time as the batteries on their older buses start to lose range, and that Stagecoach in Fife are going to have somethign to worry about?

 

[Spsf3232]

I'm a bit late, but just looking at the Edinburgh - Inverness timetable. It's always remarkabe how overnight their timetables are. I had always thought slower refueling of electric vehicles would have meant that electric buses were a threat to evening services, but Ember are certainly out to prove that it's actually all about that if your bus effectively comes with a significant prepayment against all future fuel use, you need to keep it moving!

People are often amazed to learn that an electric bus can go from 0 to 100% in 2 hours. So while the driver is sitting having his sandwiches then bus is charging up on his break.

Also the reason they can run so many overnight services is you need to remember the cost of electricity overnight is penny's, so your only cost is the driver.

 

[MotCO]

Also the reason they can run so many overnight services is you need to remember the cost of electricity overnight is penny's, so your only cost is the driver.

But if the coach is in service, it can't be charged!

 

[Buzby]

Also the reason they can run so many overnight services is you need to remember the cost of electricity overnight is penny's, so your only cost is the driver.

Pretty sweeping generalisation? The cost is what their contract states And what they negotiated from their supplier. As large users of power, they will have a contracted rate we can only dream of - I would think they would have achieved a 24/7 tariff with overnight discounts very much a consumer feature.

 

[N1]

Pretty sweeping generalisation? The cost is what their contract states And what they negotiated from their supplier. As large users of power, they will have a contracted rate we can only dream of - I would think they would have achieved a 24/7 tariff with overnight discounts very much a consumer feature.

Time of use tariffs are very much a non-domestic offering as well. Most bus operators (i.e. not Ember) are doing nearly all their charging at night. For some bus depots, the authorised capacity (maximum power the consumer can draw) also changes overnight, as this helps them get capacity from the DNO quicker and is a new approach to allowing quicker connections to be authorised.

 

[Buzby]

Time of use tariffs are very much a non-domestic offering as well.

I didn’t suggest it wasn’t possible, but it would be a mistake to assume that ‘all’ electricity to end users is cheaper overnight. It simply is not! Unless ember disclose who provides their tariff and the Kw cost, we’ll be none the wiser, but as a generalisation - it does not stand up when scrutinised.

 

[N1]

I didn’t suggest it wasn’t possible, but it would be a mistake to assume that ‘all’ electricity to end users is cheaper overnight. It simply is not! Unless ember disclose who provides their tariff and the Kw cost, we’ll be none the wiser, but as a generalisation - it does not stand up when scrutinised.

Very true, and the way ember operate does mean they are less likely to have a time-of-use tariff, running services overnight. Would be interested to find-out if they had any special agreements with 3rd parties on pricing, such as First and upcoming lost shore, or just pay the 'public' rate.

 

[MCR247]

But if the coach is in service, it can't be charged!

I did think that when I first read it last night

 

[route101]

I do wonder how many people are using these overnight Ember services.

 

[Spsf3232]

I do wonder how many people are using these overnight Ember services.

You can see the numbers by looking at the booking site. It will show how many seats remain. Most services are allocated 53 seats with some 38 on the TC12s

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

I got the Dundee to Glasgow a few weeks ago and there maybe 15 people on it over the full journey

 

[route101]

You can see the numbers by looking at the booking site. It will show how many seats remain. Most services are allocated 53 seats with some 38 on the TC12s

Yes, had a look and quite a few services had no tickets sold in advance.

 

[Volvodart]

A new article much as has been mentioned before, but this appears to be new.

Our current goal is to complete the Scottish network within the next year, roughly. “Hopefully by the end of next year, wherever you want to go in Scotland, you should be able to get pretty close on the Ember network.”

EXCLUSIVE: Ember reveals hopes for further Tayside and Fife expansion with new bus routes - StraightWin

Mr Bradbury stated, "We intend to launch more routes out of Oban and Perth." "There are further routes we might want to take between Dundee and Aberdeen.

straightwinfortoday.com

 

[overthewater]

It's disappointing there is no mention of England, or maybe that a surprise for next year. I can't see them entering the Fife to Edinburgh market unless they want to travel to North Edinburgh as that has a lot of car drivers. I suspect its Kirkcaldy to Dundee.

It does mean they will have to look at routes within Lanarkshire if they want to get a lot more people pretty close to thier network, again there is plenty of car drivers in that area.

 

[Volvodart]

It's disappointing there is no mention of England, or maybe that a surprise for next year. I can't see them entering the Fife to Edinburgh market unless they want to travel to North Edinburgh as that has a lot of car drivers. I suspect its Kirkcaldy to Dundee.

It does mean they will have to look at routes within Lanarkshire if they want to get a lot more people pretty close to thier network, again there is plenty of car drivers in that area.

The funding was for Scotland so that may have to wait for the next order, if they have to pay for the coaches themselves.

 

[MotCO]

Routeone reports that Ember is now doing private hires

Ember expands with the launch of zero-emission coach hire

Electric intercity coach operator Ember has unveiled a coach hire model that caters to private group travel

www.route-one.net

Electric intercity coach operator Ember has expanded its business beyond scheduled services with launch of Ember Coach Hire, a new zero-emission private hire offer.
The Edinburgh-based company says the move marks the next stage of its growth after reaching sufficient scale in both fleet and infrastructure.
Co-founder Keith Bradbury (pictured, left) says Ember had planned to offer coach hire from the outset but waited until it could guarantee the same standards of reliability and technology as its scheduled routes. “Private hire had been in the back of our minds early on, but we couldn’t make steps towards it until we reached a certain scale,” he explains. “This year was when we reached that scale.”
Early bookings have come from weddings, school trips, sports events and one-off corporate journeys, with around half made by existing Ember passengers. Ember explicitly avoids charging a premium for journeys, which it says are priced at parity with or below diesel equivalents.
The firm has introduced an upfront pricing model starting with a £300 fixed fee plus £60 per driving hour and £20 per waiting hour. The service, which went live on 24 September, operates through Ember’s existing digital platform, Ember OS. It manages everything from driver allocation to live tracking. Customers can already request bookings through the website, while a fully automated, instant-booking system is in development.
Leading the project day-to-day is founders’ associate Elianna Payne, who says the emphasis on the offering is a great customer journey. “When hiring a coach, you want it to be really easy to book, easy to pay for, and you do not want to chase a company for details of the journey,” she says.
“What we want to do is make that whole part of the process slick and simple with clear communication, tracking details in advance, with friendly drivers and comfortable coaches.”

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Routeone reports that Ember is now doing private hires

I’m surprised it took this long to be honest.

 

[InOban]

Surely the funding was for scheduled services? Have any other private hire operators applied for/received funding?

 

[OvergroundMatt]

Took the E11 from Banchory to Aberdeen Airport today. The £4.80 fare compared very favourably with the £55 that I’m usually fleeced for the taxi. Very impressed with the service. There was clear advance notice of a 20-min delay, due, I found out, to the driver not being able to locate the key for the vehicle, which was not in the lockbox where it should have been, necessitating a change to the “spare”, which wouldn’t start, requiring a Plan C which was a third coach that needed “a bit more charge,” according to the driver. A somewhat stressful start to the morning for him.

It was very lightly loaded (I was in a group of three and there were two other passengers) which makes me wonder whether this particular route is viable in the longer term.

Driver was very chatty, speculated about an expansion into England soon, mentioned a potential couple of routes (which I won’t repeat in case I get him into trouble).

 

[MotCO]

Surely the funding was for scheduled services? Have any other private hire operators applied for/received funding?

Funding for the coaches or infrastructure? If the former, I think someone said their earliest coaches are now 5 years old, so maybe they are being put to different uses.

 

[Spsf3232]

Funding for the coaches or infrastructure? If the former, I think someone said their earliest coaches are now 5 years old, so maybe they are being put to different uses.

Private hires are using spare vehicles and can be any of them including the 25 plate vehicles

 

[N1]

Funding for the coaches or infrastructure? If the former, I think someone said their earliest coaches are now 5 years old, so maybe they are being put to different uses.

Scotzeb 2 funding wasnt specificly for scheduled services, just has to be operated by a PSV operator or community transport operator in Scotland for 7 years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2025 ==

Scotzeb phase 1 was specifically for registered services in Scotland for 5 years

 

[Stan Drews]

It’s no surprise that they are looking at ways to increase revenue after racking up losses of over £2m in each of their last two financial years. I’d assume their investors will start to look for a return at some point.

 

[Highland050261]

Surely the funding was for scheduled services? Have any other private hire operators applied for/received funding?

Maynes of Buckie and D&E Coaches.

 

[318266]

It’s no surprise that they are looking at ways to increase revenue after racking up losses of over £2m in each of their last two financial years. I’d assume their investors will start to look for a return at some point.

It would be very surprising to me if a burgeoning electric coach company - with all the initial costs that entails - would not make a loss equivalent to the value of a small percentage of their fleet. Indeed, it surprises me it isn't higher!

I also highly doubt they were specifically attracting such short-term investors regardless.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Need to remember that ember see them self as a tech and data firm and plan to use this as a income sourcec