Ember: Electric coach service

[GregSRHST]

Hopefully stops at Aboyne, Ballater and Glenshee to be added in the future.

 

[overthewater]

I always thought it was weird there wasn't a better service covering that route from Perth to Braemar, especially during the summer months. This new service could do rather well for itself. Didn't Angus Council just remove the old Saturday service to GlenShee so there be happy to get a service back.

 

[Porty]

Curiously the map shows that it leaves Aberdeen (city centre) on the A96 to Craibstone, then along the A90 (western peripheral route) before joining the A93 (north deeside road) at Milltimber.

I think the A93 is IIRC now 40mph maximum until after Peterculter but it seems unlikely that the E11 route will be quicker going the long way round even with a small bit of higher speed running?

To pick up the airport. The news release on the Ember website specifically mentions Aberdeen Airport, though it's not on the first tranche of stops for the first few weeks.

 

[route101]

Interesting, I was thinking that it would go to Perth and Broxden for connections. Will do this route at somepoint.

 

[kkong]

Curiously the map shows that it leaves Aberdeen (city centre) on the A96 to Craibstone, then along the A90 (western peripheral route) before joining the A93 (north deeside road) at Milltimber.

I think the A93 is IIRC now 40mph maximum until after Peterculter but it seems unlikely that the E11 route will be quicker going the long way round even with a small bit of higher speed running?

It calls at Aberdeen Airport, that will be why this route has been chosen.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

Interesting, I was thinking that it would go to Perth and Broxden for connections.

Any service that avoids the interchange hellhole that is Broxden gets my vote!

 

[Strathtay 260]

The news release on the Ember website specifically mentions Aberdeen Airport, though it's not on the first tranche of stops for the first few weeks

Yes it is, you can book to Aberdeen Airport from Wednesday.

 

[OvergroundMatt]

Thus, I think, providing the first ever direct bus link between Deeside and Aberdeen airport?

 

[NorthOxonian]

E 11 Aberdeen to Dundee via Braemar

News

Find out what's new at Ember

www.ember.to

Very exciting route - I'm not convinced the demand is there but I certainly look forward to giving it a try (the outbound is too early for me, but the return journey from Aberdeen to Dundee is more convenient).

It does, interestingly create a fare anomaly. Singles from Aberdeen to Dundee are the same regardless of route (in fact, there is no way to spot the sole E11 trip on the list of journey options unless you notice the far longer journey time), but a single from Aberdeen to Blairgowrie works out at £9.30, 40p more than to Dundee. In fairness, it's not a huge difference, the way pre booked stops work means it's unlikely to be abused, and it saves Ember the hassle of trying to work out how to have one origin/destination pair with multiple fares.

 

[Porty]

Yes it is, you can book to Aberdeen Airport from Wednesday.

My apologies. But you can't book Aberdeen city centre to airport. Sensible, as I suppose they don't want seats booked up for such a short journey which may prevent others from booking longer journeys at busy times.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

My apologies. But you can't book Aberdeen city centre to airport. Sensible, as I suppose they don't want seats booked up for such a short journey which may prevent others from booking longer journeys at busy times.

Is it not rather the registration reason why that particular journey isn’t possible?

 

[Strathtay 260]

Is it not rather the registration reason why that particular journey isn’t possible?

Yes. It will likely be possible at a later date, same exact thing happened with the E5.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Yes. It will likely be possible at a later date, same exact thing happened with the E5.

Yes, thats true, but you are unable to book Edinburgh City Centre to Edinburgh Airport on the E4, my guess is that they allow Glasgow to Glasgow Airport as Citylink do the same.

 

[ecb124]

Very exciting route - I'm not convinced the demand is there but I certainly look forward to giving it a try (the outbound is too early for me, but the return journey from Aberdeen to Dundee is more convenient).

It does, interestingly create a fare anomaly. Singles from Aberdeen to Dundee are the same regardless of route (in fact, there is no way to spot the sole E11 trip on the list of journey options unless you notice the far longer journey time), but a single from Aberdeen to Blairgowrie works out at £9.30, 40p more than to Dundee. In fairness, it's not a huge difference, the way pre booked stops work means it's unlikely to be abused, and it saves Ember the hassle of trying to work out how to have one origin/destination pair with multiple fares.

It is interesting, i do wish they put the route number in the list of journeys as it's a little hard to spot. It would also help people waiting on their bus to know what service number they are booked on whilst doing the booking process

 

[scottishtrains]

The E11 seems weirdly quiet currently, hopefully it changes when more stops are introduced along with more buses. I wonder if there is any plans to route it via Kingswells P8R?

 

[Strathtay 260]

The E11 seems weirdly quiet currently

To be expected, it is the second day of the service and it’s a Thursday.

I wonder if there is any plans to route it via Kingswells P8R?

No plans to route it via Kingswells - will not be included in the upcoming launch of all stops.

 

[Porty]

The E11 seems weirdly quiet currently, hopefully it changes when more stops are introduced along with more buses. I wonder if there is any plans to route it via Kingswells P8R?

Day 1 travelled Aberdeen to Braemar. One other in Aberdeen (to Banchory) and picked up one at the airport.
Day 2 Braemar to Dundee. 6 plus myself getting on at Braemar for Dundee, including two young German backpackers who hadn't booked. Single fares would have been £20+ but he encouraged them to book online to more than halve their costs. It was obviously possible to buy a ticket a couple of minutes before the scheduled departure time, unless it was purchased for the next day and then the driver advanced it by 24 hours.

 

[route101]

Day 1 travelled Aberdeen to Braemar. One other in Aberdeen (to Banchory) and picked up one at the airport.
Day 2 Braemar to Dundee. 6 plus myself getting on at Braemar for Dundee, including two young German backpackers who hadn't booked. Single fares would have been £20+ but he encouraged them to book online to more than halve their costs. It was obviously possible to buy a ticket a couple of minutes before the scheduled departure time, unless it was purchased for the next day and then the driver advanced it by 24 hours.

Good to see the driver letting the walk ups on. I feel now train or coach becoming less easy for walk up passengers, we don't all plan are days out in advance.

 

[Porty]

Good to see the driver letting the walk ups on. I feel now train or coach becoming less easy for walk up passengers, we don't all plan are days out in advance.

Walk ups are certainly allowed on. It's just that he encouraged the customer to book online on the steps into the bus. The driver did arrive 4 or 5 mins early so there was ample time to make the online purchase and the customer halved the cost of a ticket. Whether he'd do this if running late I don't know. Still arrived in Dundee about 5 or 10 mins early.

 

[styles]

Has anyone got experience of booking a bicycle onto an Ember service?

I've made a booking, including a free cycle space. It says it may be carried in the luggage compartment if a wheelchair user boards, fine by me.

They do mention it should be clean, which I'm taking will just mean not caked in mud? I'm going to be riding some (literal) gravel tracks then a bit of on-road before getting the bus, so I shouldn't imagine it would be too dirty, but I'd like to avoid being refused carry, as I have a train to get at the other end. Am I overthinking this? I could take a water bottle and a tea towel with me to wipe it down beforehand if needed.

Are drivers generally happy with carrying the bicycles? I've had some pretty poor experiences taking bikes on trains and buses before (albeit the majority of journeys go swimmingly). Avanti have often grumbled or made things a little more difficult than it needed to be, and would quite like a hassle-free bus journey!

The actual journey is only around 30 minutes each way, and I theoretically have enough buffer each way to cycle it if needed, but it'll be a bit of a push given the rest of the cycling I'll be doing.

 

[Strathtay 260]

Ember drivers are always friendly, and if you have an issue, you can report it to them via the live chat on their website. There should be no problem taking your bike onboard Ember

 

[LocoCycle]

Has anyone got experience of booking a bicycle onto an Ember service?

I've made a booking, including a free cycle space. It says it may be carried in the luggage compartment if a wheelchair user boards, fine by me.

They do mention it should be clean, which I'm taking will just mean not caked in mud? I'm going to be riding some (literal) gravel tracks then a bit of on-road before getting the bus, so I shouldn't imagine it would be too dirty, but I'd like to avoid being refused carry, as I have a train to get at the other end. Am I overthinking this? I could take a water bottle and a tea towel with me to wipe it down beforehand if needed.

Are drivers generally happy with carrying the bicycles? I've had some pretty poor experiences taking bikes on trains and buses before (albeit the majority of journeys go swimmingly). Avanti have often grumbled or made things a little more difficult than it needed to be, and would quite like a hassle-free bus journey!

The actual journey is only around 30 minutes each way, and I theoretically have enough buffer each way to cycle it if needed, but it'll be a bit of a push given the rest of the cycling I'll be doing.

I've used them a couple of times with a friend, so two bikes booked on.

The first time my bike fell from the on board wheelchair/bike space as I hadn't secured it properly and the bus swings around much more than the train.

The second time the driver commented on how dirty my friend's bike was as he was putting it in the luggage compartment. We'd been out for a road/path ride and the bike wasn't spotless, but equally wasn't at all dirty in our view. He allowed the bike to be loaded all the same. Seemingly some people are precious about their suitcases getting dirty.

 

[kkong]

They do mention it should be clean, which I'm taking will just mean not caked in mud? I'm going to be riding some (literal) gravel tracks then a bit of on-road before getting the bus, so I shouldn't imagine it would be too dirty, but I'd like to avoid being refused carry, as I have a train to get at the other end. Am I overthinking this? I could take a water bottle and a tea towel with me to wipe it down beforehand if needed.

https://www.ember.to/faq/

"We'd appreciate if your bike is clean. If it's really dirty, please stick it in a bike bag."

 

[styles]

I've used them a couple of times with a friend, so two bikes booked on.

The first time my bike fell from the on board wheelchair/bike space as I hadn't secured it properly and the bus swings around much more than the train.

The second time the driver commented on how dirty my friend's bike was as he was putting it in the luggage compartment. We'd been out for a road/path ride and the bike wasn't spotless, but equally wasn't at all dirty in our view. He allowed the bike to be loaded all the same. Seemingly some people are precious about their suitcases getting dirty.

Oof I'll make sure to secure it properly then!

Sounds like carrying a squirty bottle of water and a rag might not be unreasonable then. I expect my bike will be more 'dusty' than anything from gravel kick up.

https://www.ember.to/faq/

"We'd appreciate if your bike is clean. If it's really dirty, please stick it in a bike bag."

Aye but it's a bike that's going to have been ridden - what's their definition of 'dirty'? I won't be carrying a bike bag.

This is my first time taking Ember as it happens, but I've heard excellent things about them.

 

[Porty]

Oof I'll make sure to secure it properly then!

Sounds like carrying a squirty bottle of water and a rag might not be unreasonable then. I expect my bike will be more 'dusty' than anything from gravel kick up.

Aye but it's a bike that's going to have been ridden - what's their definition of 'dirty'? I won't be carrying a bike bag.

This is my first time taking Ember as it happens, but I've heard excellent things about them.

Has anyone got experience of booking a bicycle onto an Ember service?

I've made a booking, including a free cycle space. It says it may be carried in the luggage compartment if a wheelchair user boards, fine by me.

They do mention it should be clean, which I'm taking will just mean not caked in mud? I'm going to be riding some (literal) gravel tracks then a bit of on-road before getting the bus, so I shouldn't imagine it would be too dirty, but I'd like to avoid being refused carry, as I have a train to get at the other end. Am I overthinking this? I could take a water bottle and a tea towel with me to wipe it down beforehand if needed.

Are drivers generally happy with carrying the bicycles? I've had some pretty poor experiences taking bikes on trains and buses before (albeit the majority of journeys go swimmingly). Avanti have often grumbled or made things a little more difficult than it needed to be, and would quite like a hassle-free bus journey!

The actual journey is only around 30 minutes each way, and I theoretically have enough buffer each way to cycle it if needed, but it'll be a bit of a push given the rest of the cycling I'll be doing.

No direct experience but I was on a service on which an employee was doing a survey of customers and I overheard another customer saying it was his 2nd journey with Ember with a recumbent bike. First time he was a bit concerned if it would be accepted - it was. From what I recall of his conversation he was very impressed with the bike friendliness of the services

 

[mabosh]

At least one of the earlier batches of TCe12s had external bike racks on their rear.

I never saw one being used and they were removed after about six months.

 

[kkong]

A new article on the Ember website provides some insights into their pricing methodology.

It is a refreshing read, in complete contrast to the attitudes of most other bus and coach operators.

Do you think Ember are reading this forum? (of course they will be; any well-run organisation should want to monitor what is being said about them).


Our Fare Structure Explained

25 Jul 2025

Our Fare Structure Explained

Building a new bus company means thinking about everything from scratch, including how to price tickets. We started from a clean slate and built a custom ticketing platform, so we weren’t bound by industry conventions and could design something better.

Transport pricing is full of weird compromises which don’t seem to make sense—split ticketing on trains, flights that get cheaper if you add an onward connection, coach tickets where booking last-minute means you pay several times as much as the person sitting next to you. Most of these quirks exist because companies bolted new systems onto old infrastructure, or optimised for revenue over customer experience.

We wanted to do better. Here's how we designed our fare structure.

The obvious solution (and why we rejected it)

The intuitive approach would be to divide our routes into legs, price each one separately, then add up those ticket prices. Travelling from Edinburgh to Perth on a bus that goes via Dunfermline? You'd pay the Edinburgh-Dunfermline fare plus the Dunfermline-Perth fare.

It sounds simple but this creates a ridiculous outcome: you end up paying for our routing decisions that don’t benefit you, like that detour into Dunfermline. You’d rather have gone straight through to Perth.

A real example is booking an Ember bus from Dundee to Banchory. We route this via Braemar to serve the Cairngorms communities. Under leg-based pricing, you'd pay to go via Braemar. If you were driving yourself, you'd go via the A90—a much shorter, faster route. You shouldn't be penalised because we decided to provide a service to Braemar along the way.

This approach felt economically backwards and not one we'd want as passengers. We're competing with car travel, where people naturally take the most efficient route and the cost reflects that direct journey.

Our solution: price the outcome, not the inputs

Instead, we price based on the journey you would take if you drove it yourself—the direct route by road between your start and end points.

We calculate fares using two factors: how long that car journey takes and how far it is to drive. Time matters more than distance in our calculation because time drives most costs—driver wages, vehicle wear, energy consumption.

Taking the same theoretical example of the bus from Edinburgh to Perth, we ignore the fact that the bus goes into Dunfermline and calculate the fare based on driving your own car directly from Edinburgh to Perth. We look at how long that car journey takes and how many miles it covers, then price accordingly.

This approach creates some quirks that feel strange at first. Sometimes a stop further along our route costs less than an earlier stop, because driving directly to the later stop is actually shorter or faster. A ticket from Dundee to Banchory will cost you less than Dundee to Braemar, even though the bus will stop at Braemar before Banchory.

We think these quirks are worth it because they keep our fares competitive with driving. You pay based on the value we provide—getting you from A to B—not the operational decisions we make about which route to take.

Fine-tuning the model

The core model works well, but we make a few adjustments to improve usability and reflect underlying costs better.

Stop zones: We group nearby stops together when the distinction between them is meaningless for pricing. George Street, Haymarket and Corstorphine in Edinburgh are treated as a single zone because most passengers boarding there are travelling out of the city, not between these stops. It's simpler to have one fare to and from Edinburgh than to create tiny price differences between stops that are essentially the same starting point.

Airport and connection fees: Airports charge us to drop-off and pick-up passengers. Rather than socialise these costs across all fares, we pass them through as small surcharges on affected journeys. It's the same for our Edinburgh Tram connections - we pass on the cost of the tram ride.

Low-density route adjustments: Rural areas with lower population density have structurally lower demand—either seasonally or year-round. To maintain service levels, we charge slightly higher prices on these sections of our route. We believe people in rural areas would rather pay slightly more for a high-quality, reliable service than have reduced frequency or seasonal cuts.

Onboard surcharge: Tickets cost significantly more when bought on the bus versus online. This wasn't our original design, but government concession payment structures force this approach if you want to maintain a level playing field with other operators. The reasons are detailed in a separate article.

What we optimised for

Three priorities shaped our approach:

Predictability: The same price whether you book weeks ahead or minutes before departure. Airlines and railways extract significant revenue from dynamic pricing, but the resulting fare complexity transfers work to customers. We'd rather have slightly lower yield than force people to become amateur revenue analysts. Besides, your car doesn't get more expensive just because you're making a last-minute journey.

Operational simplicity: Free changes and cancellations, no booking fees and minimal surcharges. We want the price you see to be the price you pay, without hidden extras that feel designed to trick you.

Optimising for the majority: Most people are honest, most journeys are straightforward and most customers just want predictable pricing. Systems designed around edge cases or bad actors typically make things worse for everyone else.

The inevitable question: can you game the system?

Of course you can. There are two ways: book to a stop short of your actual destination and hope the driver doesn't notice you staying on, or book to a stop beyond your destination that happens to be cheaper and get off early. We know both happen occasionally but we're not losing sleep over it.

The alternative—building a fortress of rules and enforcement mechanisms—would punish our honest customers far more than it would deter the dishonest ones. We've seen what happens when transport companies go down that path: you end up with systems that treat every passenger like a potential criminal.

We prefer to assume good faith and design for the 99% of people who just want to get where they're going without hassle. The occasional rule-bender is a cost of doing business, not an existential threat to our model.

Besides, our demand-responsive stops mean that if you book to the wrong destination, you might find yourself stuck on a bus that won't stop where you actually need to get off. And if we notice you're consistently abusing the system, don't expect a warm welcome next time you try to book.

Why this matters

Most transport companies inherit pricing structures from decades of incremental decisions. We started fresh and could ask fundamental questions: What are we actually selling? How should we charge for it? What trade-offs are we comfortable making?

The result isn't perfect, but it's deliberately designed rather than accidentally evolved. Every quirk exists for a reason we can articulate, every compromise serves a larger principle.

We think about problems like this constantly. If you find this kind of thing interesting, you should consider working with us or just ping us an email with your own ideas.

 

[route101]

Do like on Ember the price is the same no matter when you book, something that Flixbus does not with their sky high pricing on Anglo - Scots services.

 

[paravostok]

Do like on Ember the price is the same no matter when you book, something that Flixbus does not with their sky high pricing on Anglo - Scots services.

On the day of the Robbie Williams concert in Edinburgh I ended up stranded in Broxden P&R due to the buses all being fully booked (not something I usually need to worry about as an NEC holder) but in this case I had to buy a ticket, by accident I didn't apply the card so I got a glimpse at the fare for Perth - Edinburgh on the spot, and it was ~£40, Ember was £4.50

 

[route101]

On the day of the Robbie Williams concert in Edinburgh I ended up stranded in Broxden P&R due to the buses all being fully booked (not something I usually need to worry about as an NEC holder) but in this case I had to buy a ticket, by accident I didn't apply the card so I got a glimpse at the fare for Perth - Edinburgh on the spot, and it was ~£40, Ember was £4.50

I've seen Glasgow to London via Perth on Flixbus for £100, who's buying that?

Back to Ember, noticed the if you search Aberdeen to Dundee services it does not show the service via Braemar. Do you have to book two tickets on this service if doing the full route?

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I've seen Glasgow to London via Perth on Flixbus for £100, who's buying that?

Back to Ember, noticed the if you search Aberdeen to Dundee services it does not show the service via Braemar. Do you have to book two tickets on this service if doing the full route?

It does show you just have to look for the one that takes the longest, 14:25 it leaves Bridge of Don P&R the E11