Ember: Electric coach service

[Sealink]

It is worth pointing out that Ember have the extremely discrimatory policy of not accepting cash and charging much higher prices if you buy onboard the coach. You can pay onboard (with contactless only) but it is so much higher (always over double) which means that Stagecoach and Citylink and Scotrail are normally cheaper. Ember sound cheaper but a lot of people fail to realise it is only online that is cheaper.

For some examples. Edinburgh to Aberdeen (E1) is £16.80 online or £41.10 onboard. Aberdeen to Inverness (E7) is £13.70 online or £33.10 onboard. Inverness to Scrabster (E6) is £15.00 online or £36.40 onboard.


They have explained in detail why they have to charge so much on the bus. It's all down to concession fares, the % discount etc.

News

Find out what's new at Ember

www.ember.to

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

So the Stagecoach service will actually continue to be cheaper for walk up passengers. I imagine Stagecoach will still get business from people wanting to just walk up and pay onboard rather than going online. A lot of people do not like doing online purchases and some people want to pay with cash.

I am looking forward to using Ember and a coach where I can actually see out the window.
Below are two images taken from the X99, which clearly hasn't seen a wash for ages.
I've tried to add Alt Description but the option didn't appear.
Basically, two grimy windows.

 

[voidwxrranty]

I'm sure I've heard/read before that they don't see themselves as a bus company, they see themselves as a tech company who just happen to run buses. And that their competitor is the private car, not other bus/coach companies.

you will have read correct as that’s true. They’re a tech company providing a service. They extended the E1 to provide more seats on the busy Dundee-Aberdeen corridor. the E3 is also due an extension to Aberdeen soon as well.

 

[trei2k]

Looking at Ember's T&Cs, it's quite refreshing!

- Full refund on cancelled tickets.
- Free amendments - either pay any difference or receive any difference as a refund
- Charging cables to borrow from the driver
- Phone dead? Just gave the driver your name and they will find your booking.

It just feels worry and hassle free.

I've used them a few times and find them really excellent. The IT behind it all is exceptional as well.

Where I have the choice of Ember or another operator, I'll always be selecting Ember from now on.

 

[Buzby]

What makes it for me is if the scheduled arrival at your embarkation stop is delayed, you get an instant email or text which provides a link to their live bus map - incredibly useful at intermediate stops. It removes the uncertainty and makes the journey stress-free.

 

[ecb124]

It is worth pointing out that Ember have the extremely discrimatory policy of not accepting cash and charging much higher prices if you buy onboard the coach. You can pay onboard (with contactless only) but it is so much higher (always over double) which means that Stagecoach and Citylink and Scotrail are normally cheaper. Ember sound cheaper but a lot of people fail to realise it is only online that is cheaper.

For some examples. Edinburgh to Aberdeen (E1) is £16.80 online or £41.10 onboard. Aberdeen to Inverness (E7) is £13.70 online or £33.10 onboard. Inverness to Scrabster (E6) is £15.00 online or £36.40 onboard.

So the Stagecoach service will actually continue to be cheaper for walk up passengers. I imagine Stagecoach will still get business from people wanting to just walk up and pay onboard rather than going online. A lot of people do not like doing online purchases and some people want to pay with cash.

Having traveled with them many a time over the past couple of years, i can say i've never experienced a driver make a walk-up passenger pay the exorbadent onboard price, they wait at the stop until they purchase a ticket for the next bus, then move it on their system to the one they are currently on. As other's have said they are within their right to not accept cash, there are other options for those who wish to pay in cash. They are the only operator I can fully trust to provide a fantastic service with the ability to change/cancel tickets.

 

[Sealink]

Having traveled with them many a time over the past couple of years, i can say i've never experienced a driver make a walk-up passenger pay the exorbadent onboard price, they wait at the stop until they purchase a ticket for the next bus, then move it on their system to the one they are currently on. As other's have said they are within their right to not accept cash, there are other options for those who wish to pay in cash. They are the only operator I can fully trust to provide a fantastic service with the ability to change/cancel tickets.

I was wondering if you could book for the next bus then change it.

 

[ecb124]

I was wondering if you could book for the next bus then change it.

Yeah, either the driver can change it or the link in the ticket email lets you change it. The driver can change it even if its right at departure time, whereas the website only lets you change if it's 10 mins before departure iirc

 

[KrisEK]

I wonder, is their concessionary fare reimbursement based on the online rate, or the walkup rate?

 

[markymark2000]

I wonder, is their concessionary fare reimbursement based on the online rate, or the walkup rate?

Walkup rate. Hence why Ember are deliberately rinsing it.

 

[Stan Drews]

I wonder, is their concessionary fare reimbursement based on the online rate, or the walkup rate?

The walk up rate.

 

[Spsf3232]

Walkup rate. Hence why Ember are deliberately rinsing it.

Not just Ember, many companies do it and it's why bus travel is now so expensive for those who pay. Often find now that out with peak time train travel is far cheaper

 

[markymark2000]

Not just Ember, many companies do it and it's why bus travel is now so expensive for those who pay. Often find now that out with peak time train travel is far cheaper

Granted everyone is doing it, but Ember seem to be doing it to a greater extent. And I think this sort of thing will end up being clamped down on because of Ember. The concessionary scheme has been generous for a while in this respect of coach travel, and if someone takes the mic out of the system, it will become stricter and I think ember are crossing that line currently.

 

[scotrail158713]

If you look back far enough on this thread or the news section on their website you’ll find Ember state quite openly that they raised onboard fares because of concession repayment levels. They also say they would rather keep it at more realistic levels, but by doing that currently they were just doing themselves out of pocket financially compared with Citylink, Stagecoach etc.

 

[Spsf3232]

Granted everyone is doing it, but Ember seem to be doing it to a greater extent. And I think this sort of thing will end up being clamped down on because of Ember. The concessionary scheme has been generous for a while in this respect of coach travel, and if someone takes the mic out of the system, it will become stricter and I think ember are crossing that line currently.

Ember went to the Scottish government and tried to get the situation sorted out. They refused so they had no option but to implement what they currently do. If they turned round tomorrow and changed things because of it then I can see Ember welcoming it with open arms.

The entire concession scheme needs overhauling as it doesn't work the way it's currently ran. It hurts fare paying passengers and has decimated the bus industry with many routes now becoming unaffordable to operate as the reimbursement just doesn't cover costs now. Operators now need double the passenger numbers as they did 20 years ago to keep a service running.

 

[markymark2000]

If you look back far enough on this thread or the news section on their website you’ll find Ember state quite openly that they raised onboard fares because of concession repayment levels. They also say they would rather keep it at more realistic levels, but by doing that currently they were just doing themselves out of pocket financially compared with Citylink, Stagecoach etc.

Ember went to the Scottish government and tried to get the situation sorted out. They refused so they had no option but to implement what they currently do. If they turned round tomorrow and changed things because of it then I can see Ember welcoming it with open arms.

The entire concession scheme needs overhauling as it doesn't work the way it's currently ran. It hurts fare paying passengers and has decimated the bus industry with many routes now becoming unaffordable to operate as the reimbursement just doesn't cover costs now. Operators now need double the passenger numbers as they did 20 years ago to keep a service running.

For the record, I agree with both of you that there's issues with the concessionary system. It's something I'd love to see changed too. And yes Citylink and Flix are doing the same thing. Based off what Stadler is saying though, Ember seem to be pricing quite high though in comparison to other operators in a deliberate attempt to scheme the system to silly extents.

Infact, to prove this.
M96 Aberdeen to Inverness is £31.20 single onboard with Citylink prices starting around £13.30. That's a 134% difference. Based off the prices Stadler provides, Embers price difference is 144%.
X99 Inverness to Thurso (it won't let me do to Scrabster but I can't imagine it being much more) is £28 single onboard or £21.60 if booked online on Citylink. A 29% difference. Embers price difference on this route, 142%.
While I can't compare do a comparison of Citylinks onboard/online costs on the Aberdeen to Glasgow run as I can't find Citylink onboard fares, Embers price difference again is 144% higher to pay onboard.
(sources for Stagecoach prices are done from Stagecoach journey planner on their website. Sources for Citylink prices are from the Citylink website for the equivalent journeys. Embers prices come from Stadlers prices above).

In both cases where comparisons can be made, Embers uplift between online and onboard is higher. Gaming the system is one thing, it's another to game the system to such extents which will eventually ruin it for themselves and everyone else as Scottish Govt will catch on eventually and amend the reimbursement formula.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

For the record, I agree with both of you that there's issues with the concessionary system. It's something I'd love to see changed too. And yes Citylink and Flix are doing the same thing. Based off what Stadler is saying though, Ember seem to be pricing quite high though in comparison to other operators in a deliberate attempt to scheme the system to silly extents.

It is gaming the system but that's because the concessionary system has been stacked up against the operators. Put it another way... should the operator "play fair" and not game the system as you say. Then they'd be losing money which doesn't seem to be a great business move.

In some respects, perhaps Ember are doing this to prompt the Scottish Govt to amend the reimbursement formula so it is fairer?

I mean... is there any evidence that Ember are making excessive profits?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Refer from making excessive profits. I suspect they are simply highlighting or attempting to highlight the true cost of what the system actually is to operate

 

[paravostok]

I mean

It is gaming the system but that's because the concessionary system has been stacked up against the operators. Put it another way... should the operator "play fair" and not game the system as you say. Then they'd be losing money which doesn't seem to be a great business move.

In some respects, perhaps Ember are doing this to prompt the Scottish Govt to amend the reimbursement formula so it is fairer?

I mean... is there any evidence that Ember are making excessive profits?

Does launching 4 new routes in 2 months after increasing the fares count? I'm not against ember gaming the system but I feel like it's fairly obvious they're financially lucrative, you can debate how much this is due to the system being broken but I'd argue they're also just a very reliable and somewhat premium feeling operator which leads to the concession fares becoming more prominent, as someone with a concession card myself I usually try use Ember even if they're not the fastest or most direct choice as I know I'll have a nice seat, drivers, no booking fee online (unlike every other operator to my knowledge), and quiet electric coaches.

 

[Sealink]

I think this sums it up, from the Ember website.
This is why they upped their "buy on board" price.

Consider a single trip from Dundee to Edinburgh. The other operator running a comparable service to Ember is Citylink.

• Ember: The standard onboard fare is £10.50. Ember receives £5.78 if a 60+ concession pass holder chooses to travel with them.
• Citylink: The standard onboard fare is £22.30. Citylink receives £12.27 if a 60+ concession pass holder chooses to travel with them.

-------

If Ember are "gaming" the system it's because the system can be gamed.

But everything I have read about them, their T&Cs, experiences from people who have travelled tells me this a company trying to do the right thing.

PS - Where does one find the "buy on board" rates?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I mean

Does launching 4 new routes in 2 months after increasing the fares count? I'm not against ember gaming the system but I feel like it's fairly obvious they're financially lucrative, you can debate how much this is due to the system being broken but I'd argue they're also just a very reliable and somewhat premium feeling operator which leads to the concession fares becoming more prominent, as someone with a concession card myself I usually try use Ember even if they're not the fastest or most direct choice as I know I'll have a nice seat, drivers, no booking fee online (unlike every other operator to my knowledge), and quiet electric coaches.

That they increased fares and, emboldened by that, they launched 4 new routes? Perhaps those plans might have been in the works for some time?

Clearly, the reimbursement is woefully sub-standard and they would be taking passengers at a loss if they didn't do this. As it is, they clearly try not to exploit walk up passengers (as has been mentioned on here). At the end of the day, I can think of at least two notable instance where when English remuneration was cut, the operators simply decided to cut the routes.

 

[Spsf3232]

That they increased fares and, emboldened by that, they launched 4 new routes? Perhaps those plans might have been in the works for some time?

Clearly, the reimbursement is woefully sub-standard and they would be taking passengers at a loss if they didn't do this. As it is, they clearly try not to exploit walk up passengers (as has been mentioned on here). At the end of the day, I can think of at least two notable instance where when English remuneration was cut, the operators simply decided to cut the routes.

As you say they would be running at a loss just the same as many other companies would do.

There's also a multitude of operators who run local services which have high single fares but lower day tickets. It shows that the fare paying passengers is the one being short changed because of the concession fares, not the Scottish government!

 

[overthewater]

To be Fair, most passengers would be better off buy day/weekly/monthly tickets. And as like other business like in Retails the more you buy the cheaper it gets. Too many people have this fallacy we need cheap single tickets, to get more passenger when I think the opposite is true and we need to promote the Day/weekly/monthly tickets more.

When it comes to Ember they business model is it get as much passengers to buy before they travel thus many passengers will save money, but if you appear just before a departure your paying a premium just like at the airport.

I don't think any of them are gaming the system for profit that clear as day..

 

[takno]

Does launching 4 new routes in 2 months after increasing the fares count? I'm not against ember gaming the system but I feel like it's fairly obvious they're financially lucrative, you can debate how much this is due to the system being broken but I'd argue they're also just a very reliable and somewhat premium feeling operator which leads to the concession fares becoming more prominent, as someone with a concession card myself I usually try use Ember even if they're not the fastest or most direct choice as I know I'll have a nice seat, drivers, no booking fee online (unlike every other operator to my knowledge), and quiet electric coaches.

IIRC they took quite a lot of venture capital, so they ought to be able to expand without funding it from their existing operations. I imagine they are still doing quite well, but it's a world away from the slightly more traditional model of needing an instant return on all investment.

 

[kkong]

So the Stagecoach service will actually continue to be cheaper for walk up passengers. I imagine Stagecoach will still get business from people wanting to just walk up and pay onboard rather than going online. A lot of people do not like doing online purchases and some people want to pay with cash.

I don't think I've ever seen as frictionless a ticket purchasing experience as with ember.

You can literally be done in 5-10 seconds, no need for any app download, just a simple, clean website.

The percentage of passengers using Ember who pay on board is minuscule - ember said it was under 2% in May 2024 and I suspect that will only have decreased since then.

 

[Volvodart]

E 11 Aberdeen to Dundee via Braemar

News

Find out what's new at Ember

www.ember.to

New Dundee to Aberdeen Service via the Cairngorms
We are launching a new route from Dundee to Aberdeen with stops in Blairgowrie, Braemar, Banchory and Aberdeen Airport. The route will begin on 23 July 2025 with one return service per day. We will be adding more stops and an extra return service soon.
It is just £8.60 for an adult single from Dundee to Braemar, or £8.50 from Aberdeen to Braemar if you book online (whether you book weeks before or a minute ahead).
You can see the full route and all the stops on our live map.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

E 11 Aberdeen to Dundee via Braemar

News

Find out what's new at Ember

www.ember.to

This route seems more aimed at the tourist. Presume it only runs to/from Dundee as a way of swapping the vehicles about?

 

[Jordan Adam]

This route seems more aimed at the tourist. Presume it only runs to/from Dundee as a way of swapping the vehicles about?

Or to create new links and faster journeys from the south to the Deeside area. The previous Ballater - Blairgowrie service which operated about a decade ago was quite well used despite the fact it required passengers to make onward connections.

The Yutongs would easily manage to do Aberdeen - Braemar - Aberdeen without recharging.

 

[Porty]

This route seems more aimed at the tourist. Presume it only runs to/from Dundee as a way of swapping the vehicles about?

It hugely shortens the journey (with a change in Dundee) from Edinburgh/Glasgow to Braemar. Otherwise the only public transport link is a long way round via Deeside and Aberdeen.

Once there's more than one journey each way it will be a very handy link. However from Wednesday it will be a very early start from the central belt to get to Dundee in time for the once a day departure.

As an aside, does anyone know the last time there was a regular bus service between Braemar and Blairgowrie?

 

[Jordan Adam]

As an aside, does anyone know the last time there was a regular bus service between Braemar and Blairgowrie?

Up until 2016 a limited service had operated most summers, latterly Stagecoach operated a Service 501 between Ballater and Blairgowrie offering two journeys per day each way. Essentially a Ballater based bus operated by Stagecoach Bluebird did Ballater - Blairgowrie - Ballater meanwhile a Blairgowrie based bus operated by Stagecoach East Scotland did Blairgowrie - Ballater - Blairgowrie.

Prior to that variations of the Stagecoach Bluebird 201/202/203 would extend once per day. In the late 2000s there was a daily 502/503 service as part of the "Heather Hopper" network that operated from Aberdeen to Perth or Pitlochry via Braemar. There also used to be services linking Ballater with Grantown, Aviemore and Inverness.


I've attached the timetables for the Summer 2008 "Heather Hopper" and the Service 501 from 2016 below.

 

[PG]

E 11 Aberdeen to Dundee via Braemar


https://www.ember.to/news/#new-dundee-to-aberdeen-service-via-the-cairngorms-18-jul-2025

Curiously the map shows that it leaves Aberdeen (city centre) on the A96 to Craibstone, then along the A90 (western peripheral route) before joining the A93 (north deeside road) at Milltimber.

I think the A93 is IIRC now 40mph maximum until after Peterculter but it seems unlikely that the E11 route will be quicker going the long way round even with a small bit of higher speed running?