Elmers End Down Bay Platform usage?

[frankmoh]

Untitled

Elmers End station, looking south - line bearing right is to Addiscombe and Selsdon, to the left is to West Wickham and Hayes - May 1959 (Photo by NJ Lemon)

www.flickr.com

Surprisingly this is one of the only pictures I can find of Elmers End's down bay platform in use. What was it used for and how on earth did it stay open until 1975?

(Also when did it get removed?)

 

[Taunton]

The line ran, certainly after the 1960s, just as a main London to Hayes service. There were 2-EPB shuttles from Elmers End to Addiscombe, and separately (in peak hours) to Sanderstead, which used the bays and the crossovers in varying combinations. At the end of each peak some trains ran through from London to Addiscombe, purely because the car shed was there..

 

[Ashley Hill]

View attachment 186514

Untitled

Elmers End station, looking south - line bearing right is to Addiscombe and Selsdon, to the left is to West Wickham and Hayes - May 1959 (Photo by NJ Lemon)

www.flickr.com

Surprisingly this is one of the only pictures I can find of Elmers End's down bay platform in use. What was it used for and how on earth did it stay open until 1975?

(Also when did it get removed?)

Targets,Totems,semaphores and a box. What’s not to like! Lovely photo.

 

[30907]

The bay was very little used (apart for stabling, possibly - I'd have to check an old Carriage Working Notice later) from the 30s onwards because the growth of suburban housing turned the one-time Hayes branch into the main line.
In the 1963 timetable (selected at random online, but typical pre 1967) there is just one return trip at 4.56am from Hayes to Elmers End which must have used it (I suspect that was discontinued in 1967 but can't check).
It was retained when the layout was altered in the mid 50s as the vogue for rationalisation had not yet started; it was taken out when the line was transferred to the new London Bridge box around 1976.

 

[contrex]

Targets,Totems,semaphores and a box. What’s not to like! Lovely photo.

And a 'cathedral' substation, unless I'm mistaken. Originally for rotary converters, but using rectifiers by 1959.

 

[frankmoh]

I also wonder why the coal yard stayed at the station up to at least 1960, even though the line was electrified in 1926? Also where did the Old House go? Presumably gone before the big Tesco or Bollom fire?

Source: https://www.kentrail.org.uk/elmers_end_1960.htm

 

[Bishopstone]

Could Addiscombe and Sanderstead be reached from the down bay? The track layout isn’t quite clear enough to tell, in this photo.

Given the flow of London commuter traffic, an Up bay would be most useful in the morning peak, and a Down bay in the evening.

 

[Gloster]

Looking at the 1957 diagram it appears that the Down Bay only served trains to and from Hayes, while the Up Bay only served those to the Woodside line. Both seem capable of handling both arrivals and departures.

 

[Bodiam]

I think that the main service pre - electrification would have been from London to Addiscombe, with most Hayes branch trains being shuttles to/from Elmer's End.

 

[frankmoh]

I think that the main service pre - electrification would have been from London to Addiscombe, with most Hayes branch trains being shuttles to/from Elmer's End.

Funny how after the war it swapped around and Addiscombe was the less important line.

 

[robvulpes]

Funny how after the war it swapped around and Addiscombe was the less important line.

Answered already by 30907

...... from the 30s onwards because the growth of suburban housing turned the one-time Hayes branch into the main line...............

 

[Taunton]

I also wonder why the coal yard stayed at the station up to at least 1960, even though the line was electrified in 1926?


Source: https://www.kentrail.org.uk/elmers_end_1960.htm

Nothing to do with coal for locomotives; it was for coal delivered by the wagonload for local coal merchants, as up to around 1955 the vast majority of houses heated by coal fires. After the considerable winter smogs of the 1950s in London coal fires were restricted, and then banned, people had to change to alternative heating, and the coal merchants lost their business, as did the once-daily local freights that brought it to many London suburban stations, commonly after the morning peak. Coal for domestic use often came from the East Midlands, and was a key freight traffic lost to the railway.

 

[Chrius56000]

View attachment 186514

Untitled

Elmers End station, looking south - line bearing right is to Addiscombe and Selsdon, to the left is to West Wickham and Hayes - May 1959 (Photo by NJ Lemon)

www.flickr.com

Surprisingly this is one of the only pictures I can find of Elmers End's down bay platform in use. What was it used for and how on earth did it stay open until 1975?

(Also when did it get removed?)

. . .Which brings me to the inevitable question – Elmers End certainly DID get B.R. Southern Region Green Totem Signs (any colour pics of Elmers End from this Era?), but how come B.R. left at least one Ex–S.R. "Target" sign on the platform lamp–posts?

. . .(I believe there were quite a number of S. Region stations where B.R. only made a half–hearted job of converting stations to full B.R./Totem signage!)

Chris Williams

 

[The exile]

Nothing to do with coal for locomotives; it was for coal delivered by the wagonload for local coal merchants, as up to around 1955 the vast majority of houses heated by coal fires. After the considerable winter smogs of the 1950s in London coal fires were restricted, and then banned, people had to change to alternative heating, and the coal merchants lost their business, as did the once-daily local freights that brought it to many London suburban stations, commonly after the morning peak. Coal for domestic use often came from the East Midlands, and was a key freight traffic lost to the railway.

Though coal traffic to Tolworth (?) on the Chessington branch continued until relatively recently (compared with the photo, that is)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2025 ==

. . .Which brings me to the inevitable question – Elmers End certainly DID get B.R. Southern Region Green Totem Signs (any colour pics of Elmers End from this Era?), but how come B.R. left at least one Ex–S.R. "Target" sign on the platform lamp–posts?

. . .(I believe there were quite a number of S. Region stations where B.R. only made a half–hearted job of converting stations to full B.R./Totem signage!)

Chris Williams

At a guess “we’ve been told to exchange these signs. No one’s said anything to do with the extra ones, so we’ll leave them” ( assuming fewer new ones supplied than old ones fitted)

 

[yorksrob]

I see the new signs are on the new concrete lamp posts on the platform extension, where as the old one is on a traditional SER lamp post, so I assume they hadn't got round to changing the pre existing ones.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Nothing to do with coal for locomotives; it was for coal delivered by the wagonload for local coal merchants, as up to around 1955 the vast majority of houses heated by coal fires. After the considerable winter smogs of the 1950s in London coal fires were restricted, and then banned, people had to change to alternative heating, and the coal merchants lost their business, as did the once-daily local freights that brought it to many London suburban stations, commonly after the morning peak. Coal for domestic use often came from the East Midlands, and was a key freight traffic lost to the railway.

Alan A Jackson covered these lines in commendable detail in "Londons Local Railways" - with regard to Elemers End , (home of a station manager into the 1980's - which looked after Hayes to Catford Bridge plus branches) , freight was largely driven by the needs of Lower Sydenham gasworks with up 4 workings a day (from North End sidings Erith) , but there was a bespoke at 0300 Bricklayers Arms to Addiscombe calling at Catford Bridge and Clock House , plus an 0407 Bricklayers Arms to Hayes calling at Catford
Bridge and Elmers End as required , followed by a late evening return to the "Brick" ...

These terminals ceased in 1963 to 1964 , as demand for both gas coal and domestic coal declined , though in the late 1960's I recall decent numbers of HTV's (branded "House Coal Concentration" being despatched via Acton Yard to Beckenham Junction CCD. Best quality Gwaun Cae Gurwen beans and stovesse for the acres of 1930's housing and their boilers.

 

[Taunton]

Coal Concentration Depots were a 1950s-60s initiative of the railway to move on from local stations each having their own siding with resident coal merchant hand-shovelling from wagon to coal bag, to a centralised, mechanised high volume area depot, some large enough to have their own diesel shunter. Unfortunately the investment coincided with the rapid (very, in the case of London) elimination of household coal, and likewise the changeover of gas supply from gasworks to natural gas.

 

[30907]

Coal Concentration Depots were a 1950s-60s initiative of the railway to move on from local stations each having their own siding with resident coal merchant hand-shovelling from wagon to coal bag, to a centralised, mechanised high volume area depot, some large enough to have their own diesel shunter. Unfortunately the investment coincided with the rapid (very, in the case of London) elimination of household coal, and likewise the changeover of gas supply from gasworks to natural gas.

IIRC Beckenham Jn opened in 1965, diesel shunter and all. Now Waitrose

 

[yorksrob]

IIRC Beckenham Jn opened in 1965, diesel shunter and all. Now Waitrose

That's gentrification for you !

 

[frankmoh]

That's gentrification for you !

Given that Elmers End's former coal yard is a now the station's car park, I think it's inevitable. I think having South Norwood Country Park instead of a sewage farm is more desirable. Hopefully someone who lived in the area at the time could tell me what it smelt like.

Also, even little old Bromley North used to have a good yard! Nowadays it's a car park for offices.

Source: https://www.kentrail.org.uk/bromley north 2.htm

 

[Taunton]

An article from a 1960 Railway Magazine about coal depots in South London is on line here

https://sremg.org.uk/RlyMag/ForeignDepotsofSthLondon.pdf

These were generally larger than the local station sidings, owned by the "northern" railway companies, to keep the traffic on their line, reached by running powers before nationalisation.