ELL question

[londonbridge]

I'm going to the Spurs match at White Hart Lane tomorrow. If I use PAYG to go LO West Croydon-Dalston Junction-Highbury And Islington and then LU to Seven Sisters does it count towards a z5-z2 cap or z5-z1? I always thought using LO avoided zone 1 but I spotted Shoreditch High Street is just inside zone 1. If this route won't save me any money then I may as well just go to Victoria and get the Victoria line all the way up like I've done in the past.

 

[yorkie]

Enjoy the game

I believe that's a non-Zone 1 journey (as although Shordeditch is in Zone 1, I believe that only applies if you touch in/out there). Assuming you leave between 1600 and 1900 (which is highly likely unless you are going for a meal before the match!) this is priced at £3.80.

If you have already done journeys avoiding Zone 1 and/or continue to do journeys avoiding 1, as far as I know you will be capped at the applicable rate avoiding Zone 1. This may be a Zone 2-5 rate you quote, if such a rate exists, which I don't think exists. There is a Zone 2-6 rate at £5.10 which I think is applicable however I believe this is being abolished at the next fares change on 2 January 2010.

If you do any other journeys involving Zone 1 then there is no point avoiding Zone 1 on this journey as the applicable cap will be the Zone 1-6 cap at £7.50

Please note: I am not an expert on Oyster PAYG, hopefully an expert such as MikeWh can confirm if I have made any mistakes in my analysis above.

 

[MikeWh]

The cap is zone 2-6 at £5.10 off peak (including afternoon peak). There is no zone 2-5 cap, but I think londonbridge meant 2-6 anyway. I have had a play with other journeys involving zones 2-5 and the ELL. As soon as you go to or past Shoreditch High Street the price jumps from £2.00/£2.70 to £2.60/£3.90. This tells me that it is including zone 1 in the fare. TfL rail (tube, dlr, lo) fares do not quite match fares including other NR TOCs, but I would think that the fare of £2.40/£3.80 is the TfL rail fare for zones 1-5.

Note that if you were only doing this one return journey tomorrow then you would be charged £6.20 (1 peak, 1 off-peak) whereas taking Southern to Victoria and then the Victoria Line would charge £7.50 (£5.00 peak + £3.70 off-peak but capped at £7.50). This is because using a mixture of old NR and TfL rail within zone 1 attracts the £1.10 premium at all times. If you have made other journeys of £1.30 or more then there will be no difference. Shoreditch High Street is a really annoying anomaly!

 

[W-on-Sea]

IIRC Non zone-1 fares apply, exceptionally, on that line only to local journeys made between any stations between Dalston Junction and New Cross/New Cross Gate only i.e. over the old LU East London Line plus the new extension northwards EXCEPT to or from Shoreditch High Street.
(Which doesn't really explain why Hoxton is now in both Zones 1 and 2, as this fare structure makes this kind of academic and no travelcards exist for Zone 1 only now)

Any longer distance journey takes account of SHS's location in Zone 1 as usual, so would have a higher fare or cap.

It's a bit annoying, especailly as other similar cases (such as Hampstead Heath sitting alone in Zone 3, with both its neighbouring stations being in Zone 2, or Willesden Junction, which was transferred to being in both zones 2 and 3 instead of only 3) were removed once Oyster came in. (Mind you, it's notable that both of these were merely a return to the original situation from the early days of zones; both were moved later on to put the fares up)

 

[londonbridge]

Yeah I did mean 2-6,I know 2-5 and 2-6 are capped at the same rate,I just said 5 because that's where I'm starting from. So to confirm,using the route I've outlined I'll be capped at £5.10,yes?

As to enjoying the match,well we haven't won away this season,Bent and Mensah missing and if we put in the same kind of performance as we did at SJP it might make for an uncomfortable evening.

 

[MikeWh]

No, you won't be. Shoreditch High Street involves zone 1 so the cap goes up. But, if this is the only journey you're making today then it will be cheaper to go that way than through central London.

 

[londonbridge]

So by the time I throw in a bus to and from Croydon I'm still gonna end up paying £7.50 anyway so it won't make any difference whether I go that way or go East Croydon-Vic-7Sisters.

 

[RJ]

Enjoy the game

I believe that's a non-Zone 1 journey (as although Shordeditch is in Zone 1, I believe that only applies if you touch in/out there). Assuming you leave between 1600 and 1900 (which is highly likely unless you are going for a meal before the match!) this is priced at £3.80.

If you have already done journeys avoiding Zone 1 and/or continue to do journeys avoiding 1, as far as I know you will be capped at the applicable rate avoiding Zone 1. This may be a Zone 2-5 rate you quote, if such a rate exists, which I don't think exists. There is a Zone 2-6 rate at £5.10 which I think is applicable however I believe this is being abolished at the next fares change on 2 January 2010.

If you do any other journeys involving Zone 1 then there is no point avoiding Zone 1 on this journey as the applicable cap will be the Zone 1-6 cap at £7.50

Please note: I am not an expert on Oyster PAYG, hopefully an expert such as MikeWh can confirm if I have made any mistakes in my analysis above.

You still need a Zone 1 TC even if you're only passing through. For example, if you touch in at Oakwood and travel to Osterley, by default you get charged the Z1-5 rate because the system always assumes the most expensive route, in this case via Zone 1 (Picadilly Line). However, a validation on the pink reader at Highbury will "prove" that you didn't go via Zone 1 so one is charged accordingly. If an RPI on an Underground train catches you in Zone 1 with a 2-6 TC you will get Penalty Fared.