Elizabeth Line Station Names Query

[Tobberz]

Hi, apologies if this has been discussed before.

I was curious why stations on the Elizabeth line that serve multiple pre-existing stations have not got the King's Cross St Pancras treatment.

i.e., why are there not stations named "Liverpool St Moorgate" and "Farringdon Barbican"? It's the way the Parisians sometimes do it too (e.g., Châtelet–Les Halles).

I also understand that scheme is intended to be used in the proposed Euston St Pancras (Crossrail 2) station.

 

[Horizon22]

Hi, apologies if this has been discussed before.

I was curious why stations on the Elizabeth line that serve multiple pre-existing stations have not got the King's Cross St Pancras treatment.

i.e., why are there not stations named "Liverpool St Moorgate" and "Farringdon Barbican"? It's the way the Parisians sometimes do it too (e.g., Châtelet–Les Halles).

I also understand that scheme is intended to be used in the proposed Euston St Pancras (Crossrail 2) station.

Not sure exactly why but I would suggest simplicity and primacy.

Simplicity being one station name easier to understand and we've not really tended to do it the French way and Kings Cross St Pancras is rather unique and renamed in 1933 so is longstanding.

As for primacy Liverpool Street was where TfL Rail used to run and was the terminus of the GEML stopping service, so transferring that name only across made sense. Barbican is a very small link at the station and Farringdon already had the Thameslink service.

 

[yorkie]

Not sure exactly why but I would suggest simplicity and primacy.

Simplicity being one station name easier to understand and we've not really tended to do it the French way and Kings Cross St Pancras is rather unique and renamed in 1933 so is longstanding.

As for primacy Liverpool Street was where TfL Rail used to run and was the terminus of the GEML stopping service, so transferring that name only across made sense. Barbican is a very small link at the station and Farringdon already had the Thameslink service.

I like the way a pretty much perfect answer appears after just 6 minutes of the thread being opened

King's Cross St Pancras is not only longstanding as you correctly say, but is also fairly unique in that you have large termini literally across the road from each other, and it would not make any sense to attribute any of the tube lines as calling at one over the other, so the only sensible course of action is to name the entire tube station after both.

This situation isn't quite replicated on Crossrail; it's not the same situation as Moorgate/Liverpool Street (i.e. it's a false equivalence)

 

[Horizon22]

This situation isn't quite replicated on Crossrail; it's not the same situation as Moorgate/Liverpool Street (i.e. it's a false equivalence)

The only quirk of this one is that technically the station is managed by London Underground Moorgate, as that is how the station layout was built and integrated

 

[edwin_m]

I can see the logic for Farringdon, as the connection to Barbican is apparently low capacity and any interchange there can be made with roughly equal east at Farringdon. But that doesn't apply to Liverpool Street, because Moorgate has connections to the Northern and GN that Liverpool Street doesn't. So if I ruled the world I'd keep Farringdon but add Moorgate to Liverpool Street.

 

[poffle]

If you called it Liverpool St/Moorgate then this would be a brand new station that would have to be shown on the maps. I think that would cause more confusion.

There are three West Hampsteads within walking distance but individual gatelines.

The station is called Liverpool St. But the maps clearly show that Moorgate is directly connected to Liverpool St Elizabeth line station.

Barbican and Oxford Circus aren't shown as connected to Elizabeth line on the map although there are signs on the platforms. For Barbican there is a large entrance to Farringdon Elizabeth line station just around the corner from the Barbican LU station entrance which has escalator access to the east end of the Farringdon Elizabeth line station.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

which has escalator access to the east end of the Farringdon Elizabeth line station.

Slight correction: it has elevator access. Lots of "value engineering" led to the current set up at Barbican.

 

[poffle]

Slight correction: it has elevator access. Lots of "value engineering" led to the current set up at Barbican.

Barbican LU station has a small lift to the EL platform.

I was referring to the big Farringdon EL station entrance around the corner on Long Lane.

 

[Taunton]

Barbican LU station has a small lift to the EL platform.

If connecting from westbound Liz to westbound Circle I find it easier and shorter to do so at the Barbican end rather than the Farringdon end.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Monument and Bank is probably the nearest parallel on the tube, although it's not quite identical. It's interesting that in the past the signs at Monument all included the words "FOR BANK", and some of those at Bank "FOR MONUMENT", but in recent decades this has been discarded.

 

[LLivery]

I agree that Farringdon makes sense, but I also find it not being 'Liverpool Street-Moorgate' strange.

If you called it Liverpool St/Moorgate then this would be a brand new station that would have to be shown on the maps. I think that would cause more confusion.

There are three West Hampsteads within walking distance but individual gatelines.

The station is called Liverpool St. But the maps clearly show that Moorgate is directly connected to Liverpool St Elizabeth line station.

Barbican and Oxford Circus aren't shown as connected to Elizabeth line on the map although there are signs on the platforms. For Barbican there is a large entrance to Farringdon Elizabeth line station just around the corner from the Barbican LU station entrance which has escalator access to the east end of the Farringdon Elizabeth line station.

On the Tube Map I'd argue it isn't clear whether the Crossrail platforms are called Liverpool Street or Moorgate. If I didn't know, and I wanted a GN Northern City train, I'd have no idea you could interchange for it until I got there.

They've also got around this at Kings Cross St Pancras, by now labelling it 'King's Cross & St Pancras International'

 

[D365]

If connecting from westbound Liz to westbound Circle I find it easier and shorter to do so at the Barbican end rather than the Farringdon end.

Indeed. The Farringdon connection from Liz to Met lines is up, round, up, round, down, up…

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it just about interchanging with other lines, or should Dean St and Hanover Square also be more prominent on the map?

 

[edwin_m]

Is it just about interchanging with other lines, or should Dean St and Hanover Square also be more prominent on the map?

These are just alternative entrances to the same station. Many others also have multiple entrances which would logically also have to be shown if these ones were. That might make sense on a large-scale geographic map, but the main purpose of the Tube map is to support wayfinding around the network between specific stations, the user being presumed to know which stations are most convenient to their origin and destination. So yes, it's all about interchanging between lines.