Elizabeth line reliability issues

[Beebman]

I passed Acton Main Line in the Down direction on a GWR train just before 13:00 and the Up platform was about 5-deep with people along its entire length. I'm guessing they were all turfed off an EL train?

 

[NSEWonderer]

Current issues is driver displacement and stock displacement.This is currently hampering recovery.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Was at TCR about 30 minutes ago for a leisurely journey to catch 1650 gwr service from Paddington.
The displays said next train in 3 minutes but announcements were made saying the next train would be in 12 minutes.

A mad dash on central and bakerloo, making the 1650 with 1 minute to spare

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Presumably the swan incident was west pf Paddington on the GWML, before Acton ML and therefore a Network Rail problem?
Were GWR services also affected?
Why would a blockage west of Paddington prevent Shenfield/Abbey Wood-Paddington services running - something half the service does anyway.
Media reports (BBC etc) were very vague about where the problem was, and any alternative routes to take.
Just "swan on the tracks", a bit like the "wrong kind of snow"...

Elizabeth line suspended due to swan on the track

Passengers say they have been held on trains for up to an hour because of the swan at Paddington.

www.bbc.co.uk

One passenger complained on social media: "How hard is it to move a swan?"
"Has nobody been on the shooing course. I cannot believe you closed the entire Elizabeth line for a swan on the tracks," they added.
Passengers reported being held on trains — which do not have toilets — for up to an hour due to the swan.

 

[Mojo]

Judging by the fact that only XR services were affected, I’d say the original incident started on RfLI infrastructure.

 

[matt_world2004]

Presumably the swan incident was west pf Paddington on the GWML, before Acton ML and therefore a Network Rail problem?
Were GWR services also affected?
Why would a blockage west of Paddington prevent Shenfield/Abbey Wood-Paddington services running - something half the service does anyway.
Media reports (BBC etc) were very vague about where the problem was, and any alternative routes to take.
Just "swan on the tracks", a bit like the "wrong kind of snow"...

Elizabeth line suspended due to swan on the track

Passengers say they have been held on trains for up to an hour because of the swan at Paddington.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think it was Westbourne park/Westbound running tunnel which is why it only effected the Elizabeth line

 

[NSEWonderer]

Presumably the swan incident was west pf Paddington on the GWML, before Acton ML and therefore a Network Rail problem?
Were GWR services also affected?
Why would a blockage west of Paddington prevent Shenfield/Abbey Wood-Paddington services running - something half the service does anyway.
Media reports (BBC etc) were very vague about where the problem was, and any alternative routes to take.
Just "swan on the tracks", a bit like the "wrong kind of snow"...

Elizabeth line suspended due to swan on the track

Passengers say they have been held on trains for up to an hour because of the swan at Paddington.

www.bbc.co.uk

It blocked off the exit around Westbourne Park heading to Acton which is RFLI owned. This caused tailbacks shortly as all the westbound trains Queued up for longer than they should have instead of being emptied out and turned back imo to east bound stations to at least do a limited Paddington to Shenfield/ Abbey Wood service which didn't happen till line reopening.

 

[Horizon22]

Presumably the swan incident was west pf Paddington on the GWML, before Acton ML and therefore a Network Rail problem?
Were GWR services also affected?
Why would a blockage west of Paddington prevent Shenfield/Abbey Wood-Paddington services running - something half the service does anyway.
Media reports (BBC etc) were very vague about where the problem was, and any alternative routes to take.
Just "swan on the tracks", a bit like the "wrong kind of snow"...

Elizabeth line suspended due to swan on the track

Passengers say they have been held on trains for up to an hour because of the swan at Paddington.

www.bbc.co.uk

It was in Westbourne Park, right on the boundary with NR metals but still within RfLI territory. The swan apparently then moved briefly, but again placed itself right in front of the same train again. It was eventually believed to have been struck by a GWR service.

Trains were stacked on the Westbound line, so Shenfield services start from Liverpool Street and wouldn't have been able to reach Paddington. There's only really one good place to turnback Eastbound and that's Tottenham Court Road. If that driver was due to finish at say Maidenhead, it might not have been feasible. Plenty of alternative routes were advertised, but the BBC story is quite a short one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2023 ==

It blocked off the exit around Westbourne Park heading to Acton which is RFLI owned. This caused tailbacks shortly as all the westbound trains Queued up for longer than they should have instead of being emptied out and turned back imo to east bound stations to at least do a limited Paddington to Shenfield/ Abbey Wood service which didn't happen till line reopening.

All well and good, but at that time of day you've probably got drivers finishing early turns so wouldn't be too pleased to be heading backwards if they finish at Maidenhead or Old Oak Common. That's the only reason I can think of that trains didn't move back Eastbound as it's happened plenty of times in similar scenarios.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Trains were stacked on the Westbound line, so Shenfield services start from Liverpool Street and wouldn't have been able to reach Paddington. There's only really one good place to turnback Eastbound and that's Tottenham Court Road. If that driver was due to finish at say Maidenhead, it might not have been feasible. Plenty of alternative routes were advertised, but the BBC story is quite a short one.

I realise we're speculating here, but say that was the scenario and the driver was due to finish at Maidenhead. Wouldn't it likely still be better to turn the train at Tottenham Court Road, leave it in the Eastbound platform, and then let the driver use Underground/GWR to get back to Maidenhead: Since if you did that, presumably there will be quite a few other drivers in the vicinity, some of whom would be able to take over that train as an Eastbound service? Better surely than losing the service completely because every train is slowly getting stacked up on the Westbound track behind the swan?

As an aside, I wonder how a swan on the tracks would've been dealt with if this were 1923 instead of 2023? I rather suspect it wouldn't have been by letting the entire service go to pot for practically the entire rest of the day.

 

[D1537]

As an aside, I wonder how a swan on the tracks would've been dealt with if this were 1923 instead of 2023? I rather suspect it wouldn't have been by letting the entire service go to pot for practically the entire rest of the day.

I remember being at Crewe in the 80s when the southbound WCML was brought to a halt by a train being disabled after hitting a swan between Hartford and Winsford. A 47 had to be dispatched to haul it to Crewe, where it was terminated.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I remember being at Crewe in the 80s when the southbound WCML was brought to a halt by a train being disabled after hitting a swan between Hartford and Winsford. A 47 had to be dispatched to haul it to Crewe, where it was terminated.

I'm not sure you'd need to do anything else to 'terminate' the swan after it had collided with a train and then been hauled to Crewe by a Class 47

 

[mikeb42]

As an aside, I wonder how a swan on the tracks would've been dealt with if this were 1923 instead of 2023? I rather suspect it wouldn't have been by letting the entire service go to pot for practically the entire rest of the day.

Rather pre-1923 I realise, but given that one I.K. Brunel dealt with the problem of working in the overly small gaps between double hulls in steam ships by sending sufficiently small boys in there*, we can guess that his swan solution might have been more... pragmatic/industrial.

Possibly involving dynamite or getting a GWR train to run it over. Which appears to be what inadvertently brought the incident to an end this time. I'm not in favour of this as swans are magnificent (if sometimes petulant) creatures but...

*Apparently it's an urban myth that the more extreme version of this involved riveting them in there to meet their fate. Which is something.

 

[Horizon22]

I realise we're speculating here, but say that was the scenario and the driver was due to finish at Maidenhead. Wouldn't it likely still be better to turn the train at Tottenham Court Road, leave it in the Eastbound platform, and then let the driver use Underground/GWR to get back to Maidenhead: Since if you did that, presumably there will be quite a few other drivers in the vicinity, some of whom would be able to take over that train as an Eastbound service? Better surely than losing the service completely because every train is slowly getting stacked up on the Westbound track behind the swan?

As an aside, I wonder how a swan on the tracks would've been dealt with if this were 1923 instead of 2023? I rather suspect it wouldn't have been by letting the entire service go to pot for practically the entire rest of the day.

It was in the Westbound platform; you’d have to leave it in the Eastbound platform at Farringdon. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to leave a train unattended (even if locked up) on a running line in the core! As with anything, the benefit of hindsight is great; if it was known to take 90 minutes it might have been more feasible

But then all you’d have done is moved every train one stop further westbound, which wouldn’t have added anything, and in fact could make service resumption harder. If it can’t be confirmed that the train would go any further Eastbound, leaving trains where they are is, whilst not great, the most suitable option and just run the trains severely late but as booked seeing as drivers have to finish anyway.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think it was Westbourne park/Westbound running tunnel which is why it only effected the Elizabeth line

So a very awkward situation for the railway (and the swan).
I wonder what possessed a swan (with cygnets according to some reports) to mistake a rail tunnel portal for a waterway.
But I know in Reading they used to land on the Thames bridges by mistake sometimes, causing traffic jams

 

[setdown]

Currently on 9U69 travelling eastbound. Got into Paddington tunnel, but not the platform. There’s a train stuck in the platform that will not move at all. After 30 mins of being stuck, we’re now travelling back to Ealing Broadway, just where I started almost an hour ago.

Apparently there’s “nowhere else to go” apart from Ealing. No option to back into Paddington high level after leaving the tunnel?

 

[WestAnglian]

Presumably the swan incident was west pf Paddington on the GWML, before Acton ML and therefore a Network Rail problem?
Were GWR services also affected?
Why would a blockage west of Paddington prevent Shenfield/Abbey Wood-Paddington services running - something half the service does anyway.
Media reports (BBC etc) were very vague about where the problem was, and any alternative routes to take.
Just "swan on the tracks", a bit like the "wrong kind of snow"...

Elizabeth line suspended due to swan on the track

Passengers say they have been held on trains for up to an hour because of the swan at Paddington.

www.bbc.co.uk

I was on a westbound yesterday lunchtime. It arrived more or less on time but then sat at TCR. After 10 minutes I got off. Just as well as RTT suggests the train eventually ran 171 minutes late.
The driver said the swan was in the Paddington area.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Severe delays of recent today is due to a train at Paddington which broke down and needed to be reset thru all the systems. Eventually got on its way via RM.

Abbeywood can expect its next westbound in 30mins

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Well yesterday I had to travel from Abbey Wood to Stratford. Luckily there's a reasonable alternative route via Woolwich Arsenal/DLR. I was a bit surprised when I was travelling early afternoon that something as simple as a swan right beyond the other end of the core had shut down services as far away as Abbey Wood. I was totally astonished to find on my return journey at about 7pm ish that services were still barely running and the DLR route was still probably my best bet. Definitely seems to me that there's something must be badly wrong with how incidents are dealt with, and with service recovery plans.

On the upside, I saw some anecdotal evidence of how much new custom the EL has caused: The SouthEastern train from Abbey Wood was surprisingly full for early afternoon with lots of people waiting at Abbey Wood: That's not at all surprising, but what really struck me was that the numbers waiting at Abbey Wood was far greater than you'd have expected from before the EL started running, so I reckon they must include a lot of EL-induced demand.

On a more trivial note, it was interesting to see that the siding just east of Abbey Wood was actually occupied by a train - first time I can ever recall noticing that during the day since the line opened. Presumably parked there because of the disruption.

 

[NSEWonderer]

On the events of yesterday, According to this Facebook source the swan that landed below ended up passing away. Exactly how baffles me. Unless it was prior to the Reading train stopping for it.

 

[43066]

Exactly how baffles me.

Someone probably drove a train over it .

 

[NSEWonderer]

Someone probably drove a train over it .

King Charlie won't be pleased

 

[DynamicSpirit]

From that picture, the swan isn't even on the tracks at that point, although is very close to them.

You'd think that all you'd need to do is slowly edge a train forward towards it at say - 5mph, and it would probably move or fly away

 

[Horizon22]

Currently on 9U69 travelling eastbound. Got into Paddington tunnel, but not the platform. There’s a train stuck in the platform that will not move at all. After 30 mins of being stuck, we’re now travelling back to Ealing Broadway, just where I started almost an hour ago.

Apparently there’s “nowhere else to go” apart from Ealing. No option to back into Paddington high level after leaving the tunnel?

You'd have to have reversed and then reversed again. And no, Paddington would have already diverted trains, so was full. Very unfortunate situation to be in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2023 ==

On the events of yesterday, According to this Facebook source the swan that landed below ended up passing away. Exactly how baffles me. Unless it was prior to the Reading train stopping for it.

View attachment 138319

Flew off eventually and would have been hit by another train (believed to be a GWR service)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2023 ==

From that picture, the swan isn't even on the tracks at that point, although is very close to them.

You'd think that all you'd need to do is slowly edge a train forward towards it at say - 5mph, and it would probably move or fly away

You'd think wouldn't you but apprently incident response staff (NR and RfLI) couldn't even get it to budge! Plus they can get highly aggressive. All seems rather ridiculous but then again they are somewhat protected.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2023 ==

On a more trivial note, it was interesting to see that the siding just east of Abbey Wood was actually occupied by a train - first time I can ever recall noticing that during the day since the line opened. Presumably parked there because of the disruption.

Trains are regularly timetabled there now in certain periods of the day. Can also be used for disruption purposes when not filled as you say.

 

[Sunil_P]

From that picture, the swan isn't even on the tracks at that point, although is very close to them.

You'd think that all you'd need to do is slowly edge a train forward towards it at say - 5mph, and it would probably move or fly away

"Sandford's most wanted!"

 

[setdown]

You'd have to have reversed and then reversed again. And no, Paddington would have already diverted trains, so was full. Very unfortunate situation to be in.

I appreciate the double-reverse would have taken (even more) time, but Traksy showed 5 empty platforms, including the ones the EL used to terminate at, so I do think there was space.

 

[Horizon22]

I appreciate the double-reverse would have taken (even more) time, but Traksy showed 5 empty platforms, including the ones the EL used to terminate at, so I do think there was space.

Elizabeth line normally only has an agreed limited number of platforms during disruption - GWR or Heathrow services may have been due.

 

[jumble]

Seems to be major reliability problems on EL recently, maybe related to the recent software update. 3 failed trains I think today and yesterday.

Also today there was no passenger information systems working whatsoever when I was on it this afternoon, either above the platform doors or in the station entrances, which seems mad given there was live data on RTT available!

Not good Today
13.30 ish Delay at Stratford Westbound at least 20 minutes
Had to get on Hot Central to Boond St

 

[Acton1991]

At Heathrow Central right now and looks like the next service is running fast to Paddington… I am starting to think I’m a bad omen

 

[setdown]

Elizabeth line normally only has an agreed limited number of platforms during disruption - GWR or Heathrow services may have been due.

How many is that? Which platforms are allocated? I assume there’s a separate plan for peak and off peak? Does the plan take into account average passenger loading?

 

[Benjwri]

Does the plan take into account average passenger loading?

Surely more about how you can’t just turf GWR out of their station because once again the Elizabeth Line has screwed up. You can’t tell someone in Cornwall that their train is cancelled because the Elizabeth Line messed up, it already happens enough.