Elizabeth line "fasts"

[Taunton]

When was this? After the substation fire? There is a service every 15 minutes all day outside of disruption.

Unfortunately the disruption is all too frequent. It seems the first step in handling any delays on the GWML, which has had a litany of infrastructure failures over the last few years, is to knock the HEx down to every 30 minutes as well, which similarly impacts Terminal 5, and can also lead to Liz trains from the Central Terminal station getting to Paddington before the next HEx does, which is never, ever, described to passengers buying tickets.

 

[tram21]

The rail service at Heathrow Terminal 4 is abysmal, when I was there last the Elizabeth line was only running there every 30 minutes.
I think the service would be better if all Heathrow services went to one destination, and HX or TfL operated a shuttle from heathrow central to Terminal 4.

I do agree, I've never been there when there's not been some sort of extended delay or wait for a train to T4. It doesn't help how often the Piccadilly line is fully closed for engineering though@

 

[Benjwri]

Unfortunately the disruption is all too frequent. It seems the first step in handling any delays on the GWML, which has had a litany of infrastructure failures over the last few years, is to knock the HEx down to every 30 minutes as well, which similarly impacts Terminal 5, and can also lead to Liz trains from the Central Terminal station getting to Paddington before the next HEx does, which is never, ever, described to passengers buying tickets.

I would argue though in disruption this makes sense. Heathrow has the luxury of the Piccadilly Line as an alternative and T4 has the highest frequency of any destination on the GWML, the majority of stations on the GWML do not. What would you cut instead of the T4 services?

 

[Chiltern 165]

I would argue though in disruption this makes sense. Heathrow has the luxury of the Piccadilly Line as an alternative and T4 has the highest frequency of any destination on the GWML, the majority of stations on the GWML do not. What would you cut instead of the T4 services?

The wages of whoever keeps letting these massive infrastructure failings happen.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 19:04 ==

When was this? After the substation fire? There is a service every 15 minutes all day outside of disruption.

June 21st, 2026.

 

[Benjwri]

The wages of whoever keeps letting these massive infrastructure failings happen.

Sadly cutting wages doesn’t mean you can run more trains once things have gone wrong.

June 21st, 2026

Ah so during planned engineering which is to prevent the disruption you’re complaining about being so frequent?

 

[Chiltern 165]

I would say the best solution is to have a shuttle operating to T4 in major disruption. If you look at RTT, you can see that both Heathrow Central platforms have approximately 10 minute intervals between trains. Surely that's a large enough gap to fit in an additional train (especially when many are cancelled already).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 19:19 ==

Ah so during planned engineering which is to prevent the disruption you’re complaining about being so frequent?

Planned engineering works, yet with no plan for giving Europe's busiest airport a frequent service?

 

[Watershed]

Planned engineering works, yet with no plan for giving Europe's busiest airport a frequent service?

I agree it's disappointing that there is a reduced service to Heathrow so frequently (it feels like it's every other time that I return from Heathrow on a Sunday!) but I'm not really sure what the alternative is given that there is a lot of work needed to build OOC.

 

[Benjwri]

Planned engineering works, yet with no plan for giving Europe's busiest airport a frequent service?

2 trains an hour to Heathrow Central, where there were 8 trains an hour to London Paddington?

The Central Section of the Elizabeth Line was closed, that reduces capacity at Paddington to 6 trains an hour. This isn’t a common occurrence but it does occasionally have to happen. The 3 main western termini got an equal service of 2tph, there isn’t really much more you can cut.

 

[Chiltern 165]

I recall HX operating 4 tph, whilst Elizabeth Line operated 2 tph to both destinations.

A good solution to that sort of scenario would be having the Elizabeth line only operate to T4, or have a shuttle service operate to T4 from HC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 20:23 ==

This isn’t a common occurrence but it does occasionally have to happen.

An uncommon occurrence that happens almost every time I go to Heathrow or West Ealing

 

[TFN]

A big constraint at Heathrow is the single tunnel between Central and T4. A big delay on an inbound T4 service can create such a knock on effect on both HEX and Lizzie at the airport, it’s sometimes the better solution to terminate the late running service at Hayes.

 

[Benjwri]

An uncommon occurrence that happens almost every time I go to Heathrow or West Ealing

The Central Section being closed for engineering? You're very unlucky then.

A good solution to that sort of scenario would be having the Elizabeth line only operate to T4, or have a shuttle service operate to T4 from HC.

Terminal 4 is the smallest terminal by far... What justifies such a high service level?

 

[Western Sunset]

One marvels at those trying to make something so simple become so complex...

 

[Chiltern 165]

The Central Section being closed for engineering? You're very unlucky then

Reduced service I mean (2 tph).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 00:12 ==

smallest

While it is the smallest for *heathrow* it is not a small terminal. Heathrow doesn’t publish their terminal stats, but what I did find suggests at-least 9 million yearly - certainly not a terminal deserving of 2tph.

 

[mickey]

While it is the smallest for *heathrow* it is not a small terminal. Heathrow doesn’t publish their terminal stats, but what I did find suggests at-least 9 million yearly - certainly not a terminal deserving of 2tph.

T4 has less than half the volume of passengers than T5, and an even lower % of public transport use (the latter mainly due to the nature of its flights and customer base being very different). It also has significant excess capacity - HAL have tried various tactics to beg or force airlines to move across from congested T2/3 but mostly they’ve flat-out refused. If you have to cut a service in half, it is absolutely the better decision by every real-life measure (as opposed to crayonista ones) to go with T4 compared with T5. If HEx didn’t exist, and HAL didn’t own it, the standard Crossrail service to T5 would be much higher.

 

[Horizon22]

The "fast Reading" peak trains are effectively replacements of the old GWR services and were introduced in 2023 or 2024 at one of the final major timetable iterations. They run immediately in front of a Reading service that serves the 'usual' pattern (i.e not stopping at Acton Main Line*, Hanwell and West Ealing). Those stations are also not served during any sort of main line running (engineering wise or congestion) because there is no platform there, so it marries up neatly. Also they ultimately are not that fast if you look at the actual timetable and would instead be better described as "limited stop".

It's the Terminal 5 services that have a bit of a whacky pattern which is somewhat shoehorned in (no Southall but West Ealing instead), but it's trying to make the best of a capacity that is practically maxed out as well - don't forget the freight and the multiple sidings, yards and loops they utilise between West Drayton and Paddington - and trying to resolve commitments made during the project to local residents who were told they would be getting a certain number of trains per hour during the Crossrail project.

*Acton Main Line is now served by the otherwise fast services due to serious overcrowding issues previously in the peaks.

The rail service at Heathrow Terminal 4 is abysmal, when I was there last the Elizabeth line was only running there every 30 minutes.
I think the service would be better if all Heathrow services went to one destination, and HX or TfL operated a shuttle from heathrow central to Terminal 4.

It is timetabled 15 mins all day, every day. Must have been some disruption or a contingency plan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 00:58 ==

I would say the best solution is to have a shuttle operating to T4 in major disruption. If you look at RTT, you can see that both Heathrow Central platforms have approximately 10 minute intervals between trains. Surely that's a large enough gap to fit in an additional train (especially when many are cancelled already).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 19:19 ==


Planned engineering works, yet with no plan for giving Europe's busiest airport a frequent service?

The single lead junction at Terminal 4 is a constant cause of congestion in and around Heathrow Terminals. Slight delays can compound as the outbound depature from T4 can't leave.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 01:01 ==

Normally it ends up that Elizabeth line serves T4, and HEX service Terminal 5, both at a reduced frequency during that sort of major disruption. Passengers can then transfer (for free) for the terminal they want once at Terminals 2/3.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 01:13 ==

Unfortunately the disruption is all too frequent. It seems the first step in handling any delays on the GWML, which has had a litany of infrastructure failures over the last few years, is to knock the HEx down to every 30 minutes as well, which similarly impacts Terminal 5, and can also lead to Liz trains from the Central Terminal station getting to Paddington before the next HEx does, which is never, ever, described to passengers buying tickets.

Those are what most of the contingency plans imply especially east of West Drayton which are agreed by all operators and Network Rail. It knocks the inner Thames Valley services right down, including HEX halved, Elizabeth line only running 4tph (down from 10tph off-peak) and GWR Didcot Parkway services going no further than Reading. And yes, it's pretty common.

 

[norbitonflyer]

What I don’t like is the ‘not stopping at’ announcements in the core - I get why they do it, but it’s the opposite of every other train in the world.

Not so - I've certainly heard "not stopping at St Johns" for example

 

[Kilopylae]

Although it would be a good idea to use fast and semi-fast in platform announcements as this would allow regular users to quickly identify if the service calls at their station or not. It would not even be new to TfL as they already do this on the London Underground Metropolitan line.

Isn't the difference that a Met line fast/semi-fast always does the same thing (i.e. you know purely from the word "semi-fast" whether it will call at your station), whereas different Elizabeth line skip-stoppers skip different stops?

 

[VT 390]

Isn't the difference that a Met line fast/semi-fast always does the same thing (i.e. you know purely from the word "semi-fast" whether it will call at your station), whereas different Elizabeth line skip-stoppers skip different stops?

The Metropolitan line is more consistent but it does vary (e.g. morning peak fasts skip Wembley Park southbound only).

The only substantial different in the normal Elizabeth Line stopping patterns is that West Ealing and Southall are on different skip-stop/semi-fast services and that Iver/Taplow are on alternate off-peak services.
Otherwise the standard Elizabeth Line pattern is quite easy to differentiate between all stations and skip-stop services (with an additional limited stop pattern in peak hours).
I know when there is disruption or planned works the pattern may vary but this would be no different to any other rail service that displays the usual route maps on board but have variations in disruption.

 

[Kilopylae]

The only substantial different in the normal Elizabeth Line stopping patterns is that West Ealing and Southall are on different skip-stop/semi-fast services and that Iver/Taplow are on alternate off-peak services.

That's quite an important difference, though. On the platform for the Metropolitan line, if you want Northwick Park or Preston Road, you know that fast and semi-fast are no good. If you want Northwood, etc, you know that fast is no good but semi-fast is fine. On the platform for the Elizabeth line, if you require Southall, an announcement saying "semi-fast" tells you nothing - you don't know whether it's a Southall skipper or a West Ealing skipper.

 

[VT 390]

That's quite an important difference, though. On the platform for the Metropolitan line, if you want Northwick Park or Preston Road, you know that fast and semi-fast are no good. If you want Northwood, etc, you know that fast is no good but semi-fast is fine. On the platform for the Elizabeth line, if you require Southall, an announcement saying "semi-fast" tells you nothing - you don't know whether it's a Southall skipper or a West Ealing skipper.

"Semi-fast Reading", "Semi-fast Heathrow"... could be used, this would quickly let regular users know where the service stopped as they would know which service calls at their station.
I agree its not a perfect solution that would not benefit everyone but given the varying stopping patterns west of Paddington there is not really a way to quickly identify where the service stops (other than introducing specific route numbers/letters which would still require route knowledge).