Elizabeth line extension to Milton Keynes?

[NorthKent1989]

I know a extension to Tring was on the list of possible extensions to the new line.

In light of capacity constraints at Euston, would it be feasible to send the current Milton Keynes semi fasts through the Liz line core?

 

[JonathanH]

In light of capacity constraints at Euston, would it be feasible to send the current Milton Keynes semi fasts through the Liz line core?

Are 345s appropriate traction for trains to Milton Keynes? Where is the necessary pointwork going to be located connecting the West Coast Main Line to the Great Western relief lines for two trains an hour? Even if the connection used by the Southern service at Wembley could be used, a grade separated junction around Ladbroke Grove would be needed. The Southern service isn't exactly quick between Wembley Central and Shepherds Bush.

 

[12LDA28C]

I know a extension to Tring was on the list of possible extensions to the new line.

In light of capacity constraints at Euston, would it be feasible to send the current Milton Keynes semi fasts through the Liz line core?

Huh? How and where would the line be extended to connect with the WCML?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The idea is very unpopular locally because (unlike Thameslink) it would split the service between two quite distant stations in London. It was proposed (at least to Tring), though.

 

[The Planner]

It was binned very early on, about 2013. It needed connections from the Crossrail turn back sidings and messing about near Willesden as well. Basically to knacker the slow lines on the WCML with a metro service.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are 345s appropriate traction for trains to Milton Keynes? Where is the necessary pointwork going to be located connecting the West Coast Main Line to the Great Western relief lines for two trains an hour? Even if the connection used by the Southern service at Wembley could be used, a grade separated junction around Ladbroke Grove would be needed. The Southern service isn't exactly quick between Wembley Central and Shepherds Bush.

AIUI the “Crossrail to Tring” proposal was via a new route somewhere west of Old Oak Common. A thread back in 2017 reckoned there might have been up to 10 tph joining the WCML:

What has happened to proposals for Crossrail on the WCML, up to Tring ?

Does anyone know what has happened to Crossrail on the WCML , up to Tring ?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[PGAT]

Surely any extension wouldn’t be appropriate until after HS2 opens and capacity is freed up on the WCML

 

[The Planner]

Surely any extension wouldn’t be appropriate until after HS2 opens and capacity is freed up on the WCML

It would still ruin the slow lines.

 

[zwk500]

The idea is very unpopular locally because (unlike Thameslink) it would split the service between two quite distant stations in London. It was proposed (at least to Tring), though.

Worth pointing out just for balance that Thameslink serves a number of stations where trains go to Victoria as well (discounting Charing X/Cannon St as those trains all call at London Bridge), and people from south of the River seem quite happy to have a choice of the West End or City. Having the choice of Euston or the Elizabeth Line would be quite nice, I should think. Problems would come if ALL trains from a certain station went to only 1 option, and so you would risk getting into the origin/destination pair overload problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Worth pointing out just for balance that Thameslink serves a number of stations where trains go to Victoria as well (discounting Charing X/Cannon St as those trains all call at London Bridge), and people from south of the River seem quite happy to have a choice of the West End or City. Having the choice of Euston or the Elizabeth Line would be quite nice, I should think. Problems would come if ALL trains from a certain station went to only 1 option, and so you would risk getting into the origin/destination pair overload problem.

The higher frequencies to eg Croydon mitigate the split south of the river in a way the WCML would not - it was only going to be the 2 Tring and possibly 2 MKC stoppers, leaving MKC, Bletchley and Leighton (LNR's biggest markets) split with infrequent services from each.

 

[The Planner]

The higher frequencies to eg Croydon mitigate the split south of the river in a way the WCML would not - it was only going to be the 2 Tring and possibly 2 MKC stoppers, leaving MKC, Bletchley and Leighton (LNR's biggest markets) split with infrequent services from each.

For Crossrail? Try 6tph up to Tring.

 

[Chester1]

For Crossrail? Try 6tph up to Tring.

There would need to be a complete recast of services twice to justify the project. First when a link to Crossrail opened and then once HS2 reached Euston. In the long term it would be reasonable to extend Bakerloo to Watford, removing the DC service into Euston, give Crossrail a monopoly on slow line south of Milton Keynes with a universal stopping pattern and the fast tracks being used by LNR. I know that is going to annoy local members but how many platforms would LNR need at Euston? £4-5bn for Euston HS2 isn't viable and a much smaller NR station would help.

 

[JonathanH]

£4-5bn for Euston HS2 isn't viable and a much smaller NR station would help.

Is the cost of getting a connection between the Elizabeth Line and the South WCML somehow viable?

 

[The Planner]

There would need to be a complete recast of services twice to justify the project. First when a link to Crossrail opened and then once HS2 reached Euston. In the long term it would be reasonable to extend Bakerloo to Watford, removing the DC service into Euston, give Crossrail a monopoly on slow line south of Milton Keynes with a universal stopping pattern and the fast tracks being used by LNR. I know that is going to annoy local members but how many platforms would LNR need at Euston? £4-5bn for Euston HS2 isn't viable and a much smaller NR station would help.

I dont think it was ever treated seriously anyway as Tfl liked the idea but didnt want to pay for it. 6tph at regular intervals on the slows would have caused real problems timetabling freight and providing any two track timetable. A smaller NR station helps how?

 

[JonathanH]

A smaller NR station helps how?

The premise of the previous poster appears to be that a smaller NR station at Euston means a less constrained site, which reduces building costs for the HS2 station.

They perceive the combined cost of their cheaper Euston and Elizabeth Line to WCML connection to be somehow less than the 'unaffordable' HS2 station at Euston.

 

[The Planner]

The premise of the previous poster appears to be that a smaller NR station at Euston means a less constrained site, which reduces building costs for the HS2 station.

They perceive the combined cost of their cheaper Euston and Elizabeth Line to WCML connection to be somehow less than the 'unaffordable' HS2 station at Euston.

That was factored in though with temporary closures of platforms 16 and 15 so work could take place.