It's amusing that this is being seriously talked about. When was the last time a GTR service went to Milton Keynes? Weeks ago surely?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Electrostar GTR cascade
- Thread starter 387star
- Start date
- Status
It's amusing that this is being seriously talked about. When was the last time a GTR service went to Milton Keynes? Weeks ago surely?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
Industrial action timetable is different from planned service in 18 months.
They seem to change by the week, but is the end game also changing or just the stages to get there?
If the end game hasn't then what is it I wonder and what's the secret? How many peak metro services on Southern and Southeastern will utilise infrastructure to the max?
Last edited:
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
You asking for someone that doesn't currently exist. You seem to forget that both the GTR timetable consultation is on going plus the SE stuff is yet to kick off (happens during 2017) prior to franchise award.
As a result no-one can say what the changes down to train level because no-one yet know the timetable. Once the timetable is set the planners can go in and work out what sort of length trains can be and the information can be provided but it's not an instant thing.
Alteran Ancient
Member
2K91 was cancelled yesterday due to a train fault, and is normally run by a pair of 377/5s. That same afternoon, 1F93 departed Blackfriars as a short formation, presumably because it uses the same stock.
This morning, 2K91 ran, but it was short and choc-a-bloc as a result. It seems as though one of the 377s have been taken out of service due to some kind of fault.
Any thoughts?
This morning, 2K91 ran, but it was short and choc-a-bloc as a result. It seems as though one of the 377s have been taken out of service due to some kind of fault.
Any thoughts?
The changed SE timetable is from mid.to late 2018 isn't it given they havnt consulted yet and the franchise changeover is now Dec 2018?
And these trains start arriving before then so presumably boost services under the existing timetable?
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
I know the Bellingham arrival was a 4 vice 8 but no longer deal with the units.
I think SE has a plan for them alongside the Thameslink alterations. They shared it with TfL as their business plan as TfL mentioned they needed just 6x four cars after the added capacity of the GTR plans.
Class 466
Established Member
Should be back to normal tomorrow.
Rumours again that this is off. Credible, in terms of the source as rumours go that is. Anyone have more info?
If its off doesn't that affect the DfTs argument against devolving control due to TfL not providing more capacity, which was based on these additional trains?
If its off doesn't that affect the DfTs argument against devolving control due to TfL not providing more capacity, which was based on these additional trains?
Chris125
Established Member
This written reply might be the cause...
Heidi Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, pursuant to the Answer of 8 December 2016 to Question 55749, what progress has been made by his Department's investment board in considering the business case submitted by Southeastern Railway for additional rolling stock.
Paul Maynard: The Departments investment board considered Southeasterns proposal in December 2016. We have concluded the plans are not deliverable as previously proposed, principally because depot-related costs have escalated significantly. As a result, the Department has asked Southeastern and GTR (both owned by Govia) to work together to provide alternative workable solutions for offering additional extra capacity in Southeastern for 2017, including credible stabling options.
The rumour seems pretty accurate then seeing that. It was a SE worker that told me this morning.
So pretty much no chance of a business plan stacking up as GTR can't stable all the extra trains (info on this would be good from those at GTR)? It's basically a way for the DfT to blame the TOCs when little they can do?
Sigh - so that's it then for what, three years at least as 2 years until any new franchise then a possible new order, which would take a year at least to arrive? Maybe longer as there's no plans to increase sidings at any SE site is there?
If true then where do all the 377s go?
So pretty much no chance of a business plan stacking up as GTR can't stable all the extra trains (info on this would be good from those at GTR)? It's basically a way for the DfT to blame the TOCs when little they can do?
Sigh - so that's it then for what, three years at least as 2 years until any new franchise then a possible new order, which would take a year at least to arrive? Maybe longer as there's no plans to increase sidings at any SE site is there?
If true then where do all the 377s go?
Last edited:
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
What's the change from what I've been saying? Southern is seeing it's 29x 387/1 go with 32x 377 from Thameslink coming in. This means there isn't a big increase of work load (plus working mileages out) meaning GTR can swap the the two fleets over without issue.
This leads the GTR/SE proposal for 377s to transfer to SE but all maintenance is done by GTR (has happens right now with 377501-508). Add in the 700s on Kent routes rather than Southern routes as recently announced and there you go. SE gets an increase in extra trains without any extra depot requirement.
What is being quoted about is a whole new SE Fleet that it looks after, ie the 319 fleet as that was going to require a depot post May 2017.
So once again a SE fan on this forum sees 1 + 1 and gets 11. I really wish you'd listen and stopped getting yourself so dizzy.
It seems pretty unusual for a TOC to maintain another TOCs rolling stock - especially 31 units?
It opens up some questions such as how easy it is for stock to access the other network and does this entanglement cause issues with reliability as stock moves from a neighbouring TOC depot. It seems like it could cause issues for Southern as they go to and throw to SE routes.
It appears that lack of foresight has resulted in this. Why wasn't SE depot and siding space upgraded when the direct award was first announced in 2012, let alone the extension in 2014? We are now on extension number 3.
It opens up some questions such as how easy it is for stock to access the other network and does this entanglement cause issues with reliability as stock moves from a neighbouring TOC depot. It seems like it could cause issues for Southern as they go to and throw to SE routes.
It appears that lack of foresight has resulted in this. Why wasn't SE depot and siding space upgraded when the direct award was first announced in 2012, let alone the extension in 2014? We are now on extension number 3.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 18,739
Not unusual at all.
VTEC maintain XC HSTs.
Cal Sleeper fleet maintained at Polmadie.
Northern 323s at Longsight.
Shall I go on?
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
It's no overly difficult to get from Victoria to Selhurst and back. Currently it's one 8 car a day but when in ful swing there's Stewarts Lane which is a stones throw from Vic and SE already drive past it!
As for lack of foresight, well there is the issue of finding somwhere to build a new depot and funding it. Your talking £xxxm (that's hundreds of millions) to build a new depotor even extend one while you have existing depot space that will be free?
So anyone care to make a business plan up to spend over a hundred million pounds to build depot facilities when workings ones with space to accommodate exist that already maintain the stock?
Oh and don't forget the training up the new SE staff up in a different type of rolling stock (375 and 377 are different enough to require additional training).
Class 466
Established Member
A pair of Southeastern 377/5s will see their first weekend work on the network tomorrow morning to help strengthen the first services along the Maidstone East Line:
GT101/102:
5N10 06+09 Victoria Sidings to London Victoria
2N10 0622 London Victoria to Canterbury West
5A24 0830 Canterbury West to Canterbury West
2A24 0906 Canterbury West to London Victoria
5A24 11+19 London Victoria to Victoria Sidings
Also, 377501 will be at Ramsgate Depot this weekend for full rebranding into Southeastern Livery.
GT101/102:
5N10 06+09 Victoria Sidings to London Victoria
2N10 0622 London Victoria to Canterbury West
5A24 0830 Canterbury West to Canterbury West
2A24 0906 Canterbury West to London Victoria
5A24 11+19 London Victoria to Victoria Sidings
Also, 377501 will be at Ramsgate Depot this weekend for full rebranding into Southeastern Livery.
Last edited:
"full rebranding"... to what extent, full? Full vinylling? or just logos
Class 466
Established Member
It really isn't a good day for anyone with a fear of stickers...
Will include everything bar the purple undercoat, so the yellow pictureframes around FC, the maroon disabled loo area identifier and blue doors etc.
Charles Rayner are doing the application on the exterior.
377501 hasn't made it to Ashford today so that won't be the first unit to be done.
Think that unit is in the repair shop at Selhurst
lol.... so purple trains looking simiar to the blue ones. WIll be interesting to see!
Alteran Ancient
Member
One of the 377/5s was a no-show on Friday, leading to a very over-crowded 2K91 formed of 4 instead of 8. I don't know which unit it would have been, but could it have been one of the ones that was planned to go to Ramsgate for this "sprucing up"?
Class 466
Established Member
4 units finished in Ashford as booked and 377504 went to Ramsgate instead of 377501.
so 504 getting the vinyl bits and pieces?
Class 466
Established Member
Indeed it has!
Attachments
SprinterMan
Established Member
WOW! Looks identical to a 375 now. FCC didn't use the same shade of blue as Southeastern now do, did they? I'm hoping that SE keep the 377/5s now, as it would save a lot of unnecessary repainting.
Adam
WOW! Looks identical to a 375 now. FCC didn't use the same shade of blue as Southeastern now do, did they? I'm hoping that SE keep the 377/5s now, as it would save a lot of unnecessary repainting.
Adam
Yes it does look identical..
As an aside Interesting that southern opted for carpet in the vestibules while southeastern retains lino different policies but same owning group
Maybe the 377/5 will end up staying with southeastern you could say why shouldn't they?
WOW! Looks identical to a 375 now. FCC didn't use the same shade of blue as Southeastern now do, did they? I'm hoping that SE keep the 377/5s now, as it would save a lot of unnecessary repainting.
Adam
when coupled to a southeastern unit you will notice a slight difference.
nice.!
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
WOW! Looks identical to a 375 now. FCC didn't use the same shade of blue as Southeastern now do, did they? I'm hoping that SE keep the 377/5s now, as it would save a lot of unnecessary repainting.
Adam
Remember that SE was expecting 25x 377 so if they take only the 377/5 then they won't have more than 23 units.
All I will say it's it's a multi stage cascade so lots going on.
- Status