Electrostar GTR cascade

[Class 466]

Selhurst is temporary?

When you say rebranded the full works ?

New seat covers ?

Nope Selhurst isn't temporary. SE drivers are currently learning Selhurst and Stewarts Lane.

Well they'll keep the purple exterior, and green interior for now. But it's the start of something good for passengers at long last. Was confirmed in a staff newsletter today.

 

[Class377/5]

So no.more 377 released for a long time then !

During 2017. This was always the plan just some people jumped the jump and though a cascade was being done over night.

 

[387star]

During 2017. This was always the plan just some people jumped the jump and though a cascade was being done over night.

Is that when tl drivers learn horsham east grinstead and littlehampton routes? The latter via hove only or arun valley too?

Hove will bring added flexibility when preston park to brighton is closed as currently tl services turn at haywards normally (limited drivers sign lewes) as their drivers do mot sign hove

 

[physics34]

back to an old question.... so the 377/1s are NOT going to SE at all then, or will they be swapped over in the future?

 

[Class377/5]

Is that when tl drivers learn horsham east grinstead and littlehampton routes? The latter via hove only or arun valley too?

Hove will bring added flexibility when preston park to brighton is closed as currently tl services turn at haywards normally (limited drivers sign lewes) as their drivers do mot sign hove

Its not Thameslink drivers learning Southern routes but Southern driver changing to be Thameslink drivers.

Littlehampton has been announced as via Hove but Arun Valley will be cleared for diversions just like it is today.

 

[Class377/5]

back to an old question.... so the 377/1s are NOT going to SE at all then, or will they be swapped over in the future?

This is stage one of the cascade. People are assuming that phase 1 is the end of the cascade but it was never possible to move every 377/1 over and return the 6x TL 377s in a single event.

Nothing has changed, rumours are just that rumours by people not in the full possession of the facts.

 

[physics34]

This is stage one of the cascade. People are assuming that phase 1 is the end of the cascade but it was never possible to move every 377/1 over and return the 6x TL 377s in a single event.

Nothing has changed, rumours are just that rumours by people not in the full possession of the facts.

ha ha ok, for some silly reason i just want to drive the 377/5s eventually!

 

[absolutelymilk]

Its not Thameslink drivers learning Southern routes but Southern driver changing to be Thameslink drivers.

So what routes are Thameslink taking over from Southern?

 

[physics34]

So what routes are Thameslink taking over from Southern?

Littlehampton to London Bridge (Peak)
East Grinstead to London Bridge (Peak)
Horsham to London Bridge (all day)
Brighton to London Bridge (all day... currently shared between TL and SN i believe!)

 

[Minstral25]

This is stage one of the cascade. People are assuming that phase 1 is the end of the cascade but it was never possible to move every 377/1 over and return the 6x TL 377s in a single event.

Nothing has changed, rumours are just that rumours by people not in the full possession of the facts.

OK I haven't read through this thread for a while so probably missed half a dozen changes, so I'll bite - what are the facts! And more importantly what is the actual cascade plan today?

Let's be fair stock cascades are not really highly classified Government secrets are they?

 

[absolutelymilk]

Littlehampton to London Bridge (Peak)
East Grinstead to London Bridge (Peak)
Horsham to London Bridge (all day)
Brighton to London Bridge (all day... currently shared between TL and SN i believe!)

So when are these moving over and how many tph is this/how many units will this free up? (not sure if there is a different thread I should be asking this on)

 

[physics34]

So when are these moving over and how many tph is this/how many units will this free up? (not sure if there is a different thread I should be asking this on)

Youll have to ask class377/5

 

[ComUtoR]

They are maintained by GTR at Selhurst, but are only going to be used on SE routes.

I assume you also read the ops notice ?

 

[swt_passenger]

So when are these moving over and how many tph is this/how many units will this free up? (not sure if there is a different thread I should be asking this on)

"By the end of 2018" is the simple answer.

The latest route transfer proposals are still subject to consultation (since the summer) but it has always been the case that 8 tph of present SN and/or SE services would have to be be joined with another 8 tph to north of the Thames destinations (e.g. on the GN) to provide the additional frequency through the core.

In other words the Thameslink core frequency uplift requires SN, SE, and GN near equivalent reductions, to a close approximation the total number of paths into and through London Bridge doesn't change. It will be done in stages rather than as a big bang.

The present consultation is about the detail of which services they actually will be, and until that is finished then the effect on rolling stock cannot be stated accurately. Also important to note that the precise balance of SN and SE routes, and therefore staff and rolling stock adjustments, is also currently up in the air.

One of the original threads about it this one, there are others:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131730

 

[SF-02]

So we know 377s move to Southeastern in 2017 but is there a rough plan on dates? Half by May timetable for example, and all by the end of the year? And in dribs and drabs or larger numbers in one go?

2017 is pretty vague and there must be some preliminary idea?

 

[Class377/5]

So we know 377s move to Southeastern in 2017 but is there a rough plan on dates? Half by May timetable for example, and all by the end of the year? And in dribs and drabs or larger numbers in one go?

2017 is pretty vague and there must be some preliminary idea?

Yes but it's not public so cannot be spoken about. Remember units are not owned by the TOCs but the ROSCOs so along with the DfT there is lots of things to agree on meaning your not likely to hear what you want until it's happening.

 

[swt class 450]

Have any of the 377/5s that have already moved to Southeastern been repainted yet or had Southeastern logos applied?

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Have any of the 377/5s that have already moved to Southeastern been repainted yet or had Southeastern logos applied?

Given that the 377s they'll be inheriting from TL have recently had an external clean-up and are now just sporting purple paint, pink doors, 1st class stripes and the new TL logos, I expect Southeastern will just scrub the TL logos and replace them with the blue/white Southeastern logo. They might also plaster blue vinyls over the doors to keep them feeling "closer" to their current brand.

You can be rest-assured that SE will make an attempt, but it'll be cheap-and-cheerful. I'd be incredibly surprised if they send them up to Ilford on the back of the 375/8's and /9's refresh.

They'll almost certainly get the TL logo scrubbed prior to going into passenger service once they're officially on SE's books.

I couldn't tell you anything about software re-flashing, though. Ramsgate almost certainly don't have the capability to flash the 377s, and I don't know if they'll even try. They may just swap the "This train is the Thameslink service" PIS cues with generic ones until they can get something a bit more permanent up.

 

[Class377/5]

Have any of the 377/5s that have already moved to Southeastern been repainted yet or had Southeastern logos applied?

SE isn't repainting them. All maintenance on the units (bar day to day minor fixes and emgerency events) is done by GTR at Selhurst. SE are just renting units.

 

[Class 170101]

Any reason why the dual Voltage Class 377s are moving rather than DC only variants leaving the Dual Voltage ones at Southern where is just a chance it would get used unlike on South Eastern.

 

[physics34]

Any reason why the dual Voltage Class 377s are moving rather than DC only variants leaving the Dual Voltage ones at Southern where is just a chance it would get used unlike on South Eastern.

i gather that the 377/5s to Southeastern are temporary and they will be eventually switched with 377/1s in due course, according to various posters above.

The 377/2s are already moving back to southern and are eventually due to strengthen all MK services to 8 car, allowing the 377/7s to supplement the 377/6s to provide more 10 car metro services.

 

[ScotGG]

Is there a plan as to how many Metro services on both Southern and Southeastern will eventually go 10-car when this cascade is complete by the end of 2017 (where possible of course eg not on Vic to Dartford for example).

Are the numbers enough to mean Southern going up to 100% 10-car with these cascades?

And with 377/1s to Southeastern and subsequent Networker cascades, how many services in the peaks will utilise 8 cars on Vic routes and 10 car on Dartford and Hayes? Ideally, all would be with a fair few at 12-car after Network Rail spent so much money extending platforms to 12 car in 2011-13, after many had been done in the early 90's under the aborted 12-car scheme all the way back then.

Even if SE cannot run hardly any 12-cars, at least having enough stock through cascading to allow all 10-car in the peaks would be good, and the same with Southern (plus at least they'll be utilising the infrastructure to its fullest there)

 

[Class 466]

i gather that the 377/5s to Southeastern are temporary and they will be eventually switched with 377/1s in due course, according to various posters above.

The 377/2s are already moving back to southern and are eventually due to strengthen all MK services to 8 car, allowing the 377/7s to supplement the 377/6s to provide more 10 car metro services.

Wait and see. There's a lot of misinformation being passed around on here.

 

[D365]

Wait and see. There's a lot of misinformation being passed around on here.

The last time I heard a reason for the transfer of the Class 377/1s specifically, was that they are closest in specification to the SE Class 375s. Though this could likely be a case of misinformation in itself.

 

[physics34]

Is there a plan as to how many Metro services on both Southern and Southeastern will eventually go 10-car when this cascade is complete by the end of 2017 (where possible of course eg not on Vic to Dartford for example).

Are the numbers enough to mean Southern going up to 100% 10-car with these cascades?

And with 377/1s to Southeastern and subsequent Networker cascades, how many services in the peaks will utilise 8 cars on Vic routes and 10 car on Dartford and Hayes? Ideally, all would be with a fair few at 12-car after Network Rail spent so much money extending platforms to 12 car in 2011-13, after many had been done in the early 90's under the aborted 12-car scheme all the way back then.

Even if SE cannot run hardly any 12-cars, at least having enough stock through cascading to allow all 10-car in the peaks would be good, and the same with Southern (plus at least they'll be utilising the infrastructure to its fullest there)

455s still in service til 2021... and 8 car max on metro service via Tulse Hill.

 

[physics34]

Wait and see. There's a lot of misinformation being passed around on here.

seems to be a clash of info from both you and Class377/5. You are both reliable sources of info so this one is a real stalemate!

I just lack patience and i just wanna add 377/5s to my list of units driven.

 

[Class 466]

seems to be a clash of info from both you and Class377/5. You are both reliable sources of info so this one is a real stalemate!

I just lack patience and i just wanna add 377/5s to my list of units driven.

The forever changing outlook with this really has made it rather tough to keep up with, even when you work next to the people dealing with it!

 

[Class377/5]

Any reason why the dual Voltage Class 377s are moving rather than DC only variants leaving the Dual Voltage ones at Southern where is just a chance it would get used unlike on South Eastern.

Because SE was already using the units when they became spare. SE drivers have been using 377/5 since 2009. It was the easiest way to swap the stock back.

Techinally SE has swapped its 6x 319 for 6x 377.

i gather that the 377/5s to Southeastern are temporary and they will be eventually switched with 377/1s in due course, according to various posters above.

The 377/2s are already moving back to southern and are eventually due to strengthen all MK services to 8 car, allowing the 377/7s to supplement the 377/6s to provide more 10 car metro services.

Even GTR have stated that 8 car MKC services is only a possibility not a is going to happen.

The last time I heard a reason for the transfer of the Class 377/1s specifically, was that they are closest in specification to the SE Class 375s. Though this could likely be a case of misinformation in itself.

SE choose the units.

The forever changing outlook with this really has made it rather tough to keep up with, even when you work next to the people dealing with it!

There has been lots of changes to the plan as you say. However the end game hasn't changed.

And to be fair to the pair of us, it is hard keeping up with everything going up, especially with the speed of the cascades recently.

 

[SF-02]

What is the end game? By the time this is over how many Southern and Southeastern Metro services will be running at lengths in the peaks that are the max for the respective routes? Can we expect 75% of services, for example, to run at maximum possible length? There must be a final idea/plan here. And it can't be some big secret surely?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What is the end game? By the time this is over how many Southern and Southeastern Metro services will be running at lengths in the peaks that are the max for the respective routes? Can we expect 75% of services, for example, to run at maximum possible length? There must be a final idea/plan here. And it can't be some big secret surely?

I expect nothing concrete to be made public on here any time soon ... plans change all the time...