Electro-Diesel EDMU?

[route:oxford]

One of the variants of the new Hitachi "Super-Express", hybrid train (EDMU, HMU, HEDMU?) is said to be a completely new and untried technology...

Ok, there is the Class 73 locomotive and the long withdrawn Class 74 locos - both "Hybrid" in modern terms, but has there never been a Hybrid multiple unit?

I just can't imagine BR Engineering/Research division never attempting to build a Hybrid multiple unit of some sort... Logically speaking, it wouldn't have been that hard to do or was it simply that the possibilities never really had the potential for application?

 

[37401]

I remember reading somewhere a unit that was Diesel and Electric was going to be called a Advanced Multiple Unit AMU if i find the link ill post it up

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Recognition Pictures Loco/Artists_emu.html

scroll down

 

[Geezertronic]

Couldn't they make a variation of a DEMU that can either power electric motors via OHL or via a diesel engine?

 

[Daimler]

Not in the UK, but these things are now common in France - the SNCF's 'BGC' multiple units (or B81500), built by Bombardier, which can operate both on 1500V DC and diesel power. Odd looking things, they are also articulated! They're part of the AGC ('autorail à grande capacité' - or 'high-capacity unit' in English) family, of which there are (I think) more than 500 in France now!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/AGC_B_81500.jpg

 

[Bastiaan]

I remember reading somewhere a unit that was Diesel and Electric was going to be called a Advanced Multiple Unit AMU if i find the link ill post it up

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Recognition Pictures Loco/Artists_emu.html

scroll down

It says "would have been build in electric and diesel versions", so there would be electric versions and diesel versions, but it doesn't say there would be hybrid electro-diesel versions.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Nearest thing I can think of is the 33/1 + 4TC + 4VEP + 4VEP train that ran from Waterloo in the evening rush hour in the late 70s/early 80s, which split at Basingstoke with the diesel half going to the Salisbury direction and the electric towards Southampton.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I remember reading somewhere a unit that was Diesel and Electric was going to be called a Advanced Multiple Unit AMU if i find the link ill post it up

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Recognition Pictures Loco/Artists_emu.html

scroll down

I was scrolling down on the link given by you and noticed a concept called the "Battersea Bullet" that made my day with a good looking concept with a name like that !

The propesed class 465 looks like a class 165,and the proposed cross-rail unit at the end looks like a Class 465"Networker" or is it just me?
Regards

 

[poshbakerloo]

I never get it...I thought It had both a Diesel and an electric loco haha

 

[GNERman]

if 73's had bigger diesel engines they would be brilliant, but cos they're so small they are unreliable

 

[ukrob]

if 73's had bigger diesel engines they would be brilliant, but cos they're so small they are unreliable

What has the size of engine got to do with reliability?

 

[WillPS]

Presumably because they will be going "flat out" much more than a bigger engine would to get the loco to speed (and maintaining that speed).

 

[Royston Vasey]

Presumably because they will be going "flat out" much more than a bigger engine would to get the loco to speed (and maintaining that speed).

It does far more good to run a diesel engine flat out than to run at low revs, or to run under a stop-start regime.

 

[A60K]

Not actually a hybrid, but the British Rail plan was for Class 210 and Class 317 to run in multiple. However, the Class 210 proved to be over-specified and too expensive for most of the intended services so was cancelled after the first two units had been tested.

 

[jopsuk]

I was scrolling down on the link given by you and noticed a concept called the "Battersea Bullet" that made my day with a good looking concept with a name like that !

The propesed class 465 looks like a class 165,and the proposed cross-rail unit at the end looks like a Class 465"Networker" or is it just me?
Regards

Not just you- that would have been part of the "Networker" family

 

[tbtc]

Nearest thing I can think of is the 33/1 + 4TC + 4VEP + 4VEP train that ran from Waterloo in the evening rush hour in the late 70s/early 80s, which split at Basingstoke with the diesel half going to the Salisbury direction and the electric towards Southampton.

That sounds an excellent idea - good pathing!

Shame the Exeter 159s can't be attached like this to an EMU...

 

[anthony263]

I did read somewhre about bombardier desinging a multiple unit that could run on both diesel & electric power. It its true then it could be a very good thing especially for FGW if the route is electrified as these units could work service from London - Marlow/greenford etc.

 

[Daimler]

I did read somewhre about bombardier desinging a multiple unit that could run on both diesel & electric power. It its true then it could be a very good thing especially for FGW if the route is electrified as these units could work service from London - Marlow/greenford etc.

Not in the UK, but these things are now common in France - the SNCF's 'BGC' multiple units (or B81500), built by Bombardier, which can operate both on 1500V DC and diesel power. Odd looking things, they are also articulated! They're part of the AGC ('autorail à grande capacité' - or 'high-capacity unit' in English) family, of which there are (I think) more than 500 in France now!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/AGC_B_81500.jpg

They're very popular, used all over the place (they look quite nice, actually!).

 

[starrymarkb]

They have - its the Automotrice Grand Capacitie (pardon my french)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9FyLBjwdU&feature=channel

Listen to the Electric whine become thrash Changeover on the move

 

[mallard]

I expect the reason that we've never had an EDMU is that it would effectively have to be a DEMU+pickup. Since DEMUs have never been very popular in the UK (only appearing in the SR), nobody's ever done it.

 

[johnb]

Err, 220-222s?

 

[MCR247]

They are DEMUs, which actually are diesel. They cant be used on electric.

 

[Geezertronic]

Err, 220-222s?

Diesel engine powers electric motors/generators. They do not have a pantograph or 3rd Line shoe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric_transmission should give some more info on the subject

 

[krus_aragon]

Err, 220-222s?

Yes, but before then only the SR did DEMUs.

 

[MCR247]

Yes, but before then only the SR did DEMUs.

As said they arent EDMUs. Diesel Electric MU is a diesel powered train
Electric - Diesel MU is an electric & diesel powered train

 

[krus_aragon]

As said they arent EDMUs. Diesel Electric MU is a diesel powered train
Electric - Diesel MU is an electric & diesel powered train

I was following the DEMU -> EDMU idea:

I expect the reason that we've never had an EDMU is that it would effectively have to be a DEMU+pickup. Since DEMUs have never been very popular in the UK (only appearing in the SR), nobody's ever done it.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I expect the reason that we've never had an EDMU is that it would effectively have to be a DEMU+pickup. Since DEMUs have never been very popular in the UK (only appearing in the SR), nobody's ever done it.

The HST is a DEMU!

 

[MCR247]

The HST is a DEMU!

How is it? Voyagers are but as said an EDMU would be completely different to a DEMU as for starters a DEMU isnt electric!

 

[starrymarkb]

How is it? Voyagers are but as said an EDMU would be completely different to a DEMU as for starters a DEMU isnt electric!

They are indeed - they were originally numbered in the 25x series. but as powercars were swapped regularly the set numbering was abandoned. The powercars are numbered as coaching stock, it was only luck that there were no class 43s registered in the previous 5 years that allowed them to occupy the 43xxx range...

They are also Power Cars, NOT locomotives - again as they are technically units with no fixed formation

 

[mallard]

Oh yes, I forgot that the 22x's are diesel-electric, but the HST doesn't really count as the traction system has more in common with locomotives than most MU's.

My point was, since a EDMU would need to use electric traction motors in electric mode, to minimize complexity it would be better if the diesel mode used those same traction motors, thus mandating an electric transmission and effectively making it a DEMU when operating in diesel mode.

Of course, more complicated solutions could be used, such as having separate diesel and electric power-bogies or the IEPs solution of having a panto-equipped driving trailer at one end and a diesel power car at the other (but then that is more-or-less an "EDEMU").