Electrification: Which line would you do next?

[si404]

Arguably removing 75mph diesel stopping services from the 125mph ECML is a priority an order of magnitude higher than an infill scheme which will use bimodes on the busy electrified section anyway (Lostock-Wigan).

Under the last timetable, most trains ran Morpeth-Newcastle with only a few extending to various other places for stock movements and peak extras. While I agree absolutely with the sentiment, the microfleet needed to run the Morpeth/Chathill service as electric is not going happen unless some other routes in the NE are electrified so that electric Northern trains in that area are more economically and operationally sensible.

 

[Mag_seven]

East Kilbride / Barrhead. Maryhill.

 

[mallard]

The Chiltern Main Line and the (connected, obviously) Snow Hill routes. High-frequency commuter/metro-style railways benefit hugely from electrification. There's a reason that they've historically always been the first to be done.

 

[MonsooN]

How about down the Durham Coast line from Sunderland to Hartlepool? This could also invite further extensions of the Metro to Grangetown, Ryhope, Seaham, Dawdon, Easington, Horden and Blackhall before getting to Hartlepool. Quite a few overhead structures and viaducts on that line as well as a lengthy tunnel south of Sunderland.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Going by the 2009 electrification RUS, the priorities should presumably be:

1. Finish North Transpennine and the Great Western scheme to Oxford, Swansea, and Bristol via Bath.
2. Midland Main Line to Nottingham, Derby & Sheffield (already on the card)
3. Northallerton and Ferryhill to Middlesbrough
4. Cross-Country as far as Plymouth and Basingstoke - north of Birmingham, this would practically be infill at this point!
5. Hull to Church Fenton and Doncaster via Selby
6. Berks & Hants, making the Great Western practically an all-electric intercity railway except for west of Plymouth.
7. Basingstoke to Exeter at 25 kV
8. Chiltern Main Line
9. The Snow Hill lines
10. Felixstowe to Birmingham - major freight route
11. Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury
12. Stockton to Sunderland

Somewhere in there, it probably makes sense to convert Basingstoke to Weymouth to 25 kV, and do Oxford to Bletchley, but I haven't got the BCRs to prioritise them.

Edit: armed with new information, additional works in italics above.

 

[option]

Camp Hill line into New St (less than 10km), & into Moor St (less than 2km)

Really cheap, obvious infill. Would enable Camp Hill services to start off as electric, & be a diversion route for CrossCity.
I could see this being part funded by TfWM.
Makes future schemes (electric into Moor St, Bristol to Birmingham, etc) cheaper.​

Coventry - Nuneaton - Leicester
Birmingham - Leicester
Birmingham - Derby - Nottingham
Coventry - Leamington (15km)

Birmingham - Water Orton & Nuneaton - Leicester are common between the schemes.
Nudges the MML electrification to get to Derby & Nottingham via Leicester.
Gets more diesel out of New St (& Coventry etc)​

​

Bristol to Birmingham New St, including the Shrub Hill & Foregate St parts at Worcester

The urban ends (Birmingham & Cardiff/Bristol) will be fully electric, so makes sense to fill in the stretch in-between
It also moves some more services over to electric quite quickly & easily.
It forces a decision & works to track/signalling in the Worcester area
This would move the Cardiff-Nottingham service, & other regional/local ones to electric.
​

 

[Halifaxlad]

Please don't forget its about end to end lines, that could become a test bed for demonstrating what we already know, that electrification can be delivered cost effectively and efficiently if its done right!

I do like the suggestion of seeing these new masts designed by Mott Macdonald being tried out as well, to whoever mentioned it.

 

[james60059]

Birmingham - Leicester

Not a bad idea, rejig the trackwork at Water Orton and increase the services to 2tph stopping at all local stations, plus with increasing enthusiasm to Stockingford and Elmesthorpe Stations being reopened, you could have another CrossCity style operation, and to be honest the current services are always busy even in the middle of the day .

 

[TheWalrus]

The first stretch I would do is Didcot-Oxford. I would get electric 125mph EMUs for the fast and semi-fast Didcot/Oxford-Paddington services. This would release a few 802s and 387s, which would facilitate an electric local EMU Didcot-Oxford and the 802s could be used to increase London-West of England services.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The first stretch I would do is Didcot-Oxford. I would get electric 125mph EMUs for the fast and semi-fast Didcot/Oxford-Paddington services. This would release a few 802s and 387s, which would facilitate an electric local EMU Didcot-Oxford and the 802s could be used to increase London-West of England services.

Quite like that idea although it's a shame that East - West Rail isn't being electrified, then we could have an electric East - West spine onto Cardiff and Swansea.

I think the above isn't being electrified in order to reduce costs and improve the BCR. Its like Skipton to Colne idea, would love to see it electrified to Preston so we could have an all electric service to Blackpool North.

 

[tbtc]

East Kilbride / Barrhead. Maryhill.

Were it up to me, those would be very high on the list - short lines with relatively frequent DMUs, lines that are electrified at one end (so all of the "disruption to a busy city terminal station" has already been done).

Plus you could give three separate contract to three different firms to compare their solutions and see which is most innovative (i.e. "if your scheme to wire to East Kilbride is better than the rival firms wiring to Barrhead/ Maryhill then your firm get the contract for the next big scheme"). Didn't BR take that approach with the small builds of electric locomotives (81-85) with the "cherry" of being chosen to build the 86/87s as the incentive?

Some of the other suggestions sound good - though some are going well beyond the OP's remit!

 

[TheWalrus]

I would also do as the next scheme Snow Hill lines, or at least the core section of it with bi-modes.

 

[option]

Snow Hill lines are the awkward ones
Stratford & Leamington are the end points to the south east surely*, but what are the end points to the south west?

If Worcester is already done as part of Bristol-Birmingham, then you only need to get to Droitwich, which saves 5+miles of work, & probably means there is a suitable grid supply already in place.
If Worcester isn't done, do you end at Stourbridge?

* if you've only done to Dorridge & Shirley, then the local services will need the added expense of bi-modes, & Chiltern/XC won't even look at bi-modes for their services as they wont be under wires for long enough.
(& XC are more likely to have/go for bi-modes if Bristol-Birmingham, & other lines from Birmingham, are electrified)

 

[TheWalrus]

Snow Hill lines are the awkward ones
Stratford & Leamington are the end points to the south east surely*, but what are the end points to the south west?

If Worcester is already done as part of Bristol-Birmingham, then you only need to get to Droitwich, which saves 5+miles of work, & probably means there is a suitable grid supply already in place.
If Worcester isn't done, do you end at Stourbridge?

* if you've only done to Dorridge & Shirley, then the local services will need the added expense of bi-modes, & Chiltern/XC won't even look at bi-modes for their services as they wont be under wires for long enough.
(& XC are more likely to have/go for bi-modes if Bristol-Birmingham, & other lines from Birmingham, are electrified)

Are you saying without electrifying Worcester-Dorridge at least and maybe stratford as well it’s not worth it?

 

[VT 390]

Snow Hill lines are the awkward ones
Stratford & Leamington are the end points to the south east surely*, but what are the end points to the south west?

If Worcester is already done as part of Bristol-Birmingham, then you only need to get to Droitwich, which saves 5+miles of work, & probably means there is a suitable grid supply already in place.
If Worcester isn't done, do you end at Stourbridge?

* if you've only done to Dorridge & Shirley, then the local services will need the added expense of bi-modes, & Chiltern/XC won't even look at bi-modes for their services as they wont be under wires for long enough.
(& XC are more likely to have/go for bi-modes if Bristol-Birmingham, & other lines from Birmingham, are electrified)

In the east they should be electrified to Stratford and Leamington with WMR operating the Local Leamington services along with an electric Stratford to Leamington service instead of Chiltern railways. This would also start possible Chiltern electrification in the future.
In the West really I think the whole route to Hereford should be electrified to allow Birmingham to Hereford services to also be electric as well as GWR services, but as this would cost a lot more just as far as both Worcester stations with the limited Great Malvern snow hill services being replaced with something else. This would allow all Snow Hill services to be electric operated with no bi modes needed.

 

[option]

Are you saying without electrifying Worcester-Dorridge at least and maybe stratford as well it’s not worth it?

It depends why your doing it, who's funding it, whether a franchise/rosco would want to change stock, & what else it could tie in with.
Snow Hill services have end points in multiple locations, in the south-east you've got Stratford & Leamington, but also then points closer in, Dorridge & Whitlocks End.

Lets assume your going to do Stourbridge Junction to Snow Hill/Moor St anyway.
Problem then is, it's too short a distance to make it worth anyone buying bi-modes for, so you need to go south-east. But, there's two routes, & one of those has multiple operators on it.

So you electrify to Tyseley, as thats where both routes are common.
Still not worth changing rolling stock for anyone.

Extend to Whitlocks End.
Not all the services end there, plenty go through to Stratford. Do you assume the wires will get to Stratford within a decade of WE, & so don't order bi-modes?
>Obvious answer is the wires go to Stratford straight away, then you can start ordering EMUs.

Extend to Dorridge.
Same issue as above.
>Obvious answer is the wires go to Leamington straight away, then you can roll out more EMUs.



It does mean a lot of services terminate at Stourbridge. Realistically any extension from there to Worcester needs Worcester to already be done.

Chiltern could then look at bi-modes, or the Chiltern mainline might be being electrified (even easier if Didcot-Oxford-Banbury is done)
You then may as well do Leamington-Coventry-Nuneaton, already then electrified at both ends, & XC could then look at bi-modes.

 

[Ken H]

Leeds-Harrogate-Knaresborough

OK there is Bramhope tunnel and Crimple Viaduct

use bi-modes because of Knaresborough-York

take feed from Leeds end so thats easy.

not aware of any mining on that route.

The A61 road from Harrogate to Leeds is horrid too.

 

[VT 390]

It does mean a lot of services terminate at Stourbridge. Realistically any extension from there to Worcester needs Worcester to already be done.

At the very least it would be worth extending the wires to Kidderminster past Stourbridge as 4 out of 6 services an hour go there.

 

[Ken H]

At the very least it would be worth extending the wires to Kidderminster past Stourbridge as 4 out of 6 services an hour go there.

So you spark to Kiddy.

I would do Dorridge/Earlswood to Kiddy and use bi modes. Diesel for Leamington, Stratford and beyond Kiddy.

Similar the the Welsh valleys. Spark to Pontypridd. use the diesels on up the Rhondda, Cynon and on to Merthyr, for example.

 

[VT 390]

So you spark to Kiddy.

I would do Dorridge/Earlswood to Kiddy and use bi modes. Diesel for Leamington, Stratford and beyond Kiddy.

Similar the the Welsh valleys. Spark to Pontypridd. use the diesels on up the Rhondda, Cynon and on to Merthyr, for example.

Ideally I would have wires all the way to Worcester but as only 2tph use that section it may not be worth it unless you did Bromsgrove to Droitwich and on to Great Malvern as well.

The problem with having diesels past Pontypridd and electrics to Pontypridd but is that most services continue through Pontypridd and except in the Peaks I do not think extra services only as far as Pontypridd would be worth while but I agree that wires should reach Pontypridd but I woul have either Bi Modes or Battery trains to go further in to the valleys.

 

[The Planner]

You then may as well do Leamington-Coventry-Nuneaton, already then electrified at both ends, & XC could then look at bi-modes.

Cov to Nuneaton would only get done as infill once Leamington to Cov and Birmingham to Leicester are wired, which is a long long way from happening.

 

[TheWalrus]

I think the real question is: how many trains per hour does it take to warrant looking at electrification? The answer to this will give us all the answers to the original question.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the real question is: how many trains per hour does it take to warrant looking at electrification? The answer to this will give us all the answers to the original question.

1tph is probably the bare minimum worth bothering with, but beyond that it really depends on operational convenience. For instance the case for Windermere at 1tph is very good, because it will be a cheap job (no additional substations required, just the supports and a single wire) and because it will mean a DMU doesn't run under the wires many times that distance for the sake of about 15 miles of unelectrified line.

Similarly the case for the Marston Vale might not be absolutely terrible, because it would remove an island of diesel in a large electrified area. St Albans (already done) is similar. That said, DMUs designed for microfleet operation (230s) provide a reasonable alternative.

 

[LUYMun]

I'm tempted that the North Down lines (Reading-Gatwick Airport via Wokingham and Guildford) should be entirely electrified with third rail, however certain sections are already electrified. This may then say that bi-modes should be operated, however it'd take too long and too repetitive to keep changing tractions (one every time at Reigate, Guildford, Ash and Wokingham), especially when there's a wide range of stopping, semi-fast and fast trains travelling at the same time. So I'm not too sure on this, to electrify, or to bi-mode?

 

[iainbhx]

Kidderminster to Whitlocks End/Dorridge is the best Snow Hill Lines electrification solution in terms of bang for buck, after that Leamington, the 1tph down from Whitlocks to Stratford must be a lower priority.

 

[Calum1]

Maryhill line
Glasgow- East Kilbride/Kilmarnock then to Troon.
Waverley - Tweedbank
Fife Circle

Have near enough all Central Belt commuter stuff run by electric trains. ( If I had it my way)

 

[TheWalrus]

Kidderminster to Whitlocks End/Dorridge is the best Snow Hill Lines electrification solution in terms of bang for buck, after that Leamington, the 1tph down from Whitlocks to Stratford must be a lower priority.

I think this would be the best plan with EMUs doing Whitlocks End/Dorridge to Kidderminster, and bi modes doing Worcester-Stratford-upon-Avon.

The Chiltern Line must be a good candidate with 7 tph as far as High Wycombe (8 as far as Gerrards Cross). Then it could be decided whether it’s worth continuing to Bicester, Oxford, Banbury, or go the whole way and link up with the Snow Hill lines at Dorridge.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Leeds-Harrogate-Knaresborough

OK there is Bramhope tunnel and Crimple Viaduct

use bi-modes because of Knaresborough-York

take feed from Leeds end so thats easy.

not aware of any mining on that route.

The A61 road from Harrogate to Leeds is horrid too.

Great suggestion, although using bio-modes would surely undermine the business case for such as scheme. Perhaps it should be split into two with a fully electrified line to Harrogate and then a diesel service to York, although to maintain current service patterns you would have to reinstate the second track between Knaresborough and York, although I think that is planned anyway. The York service could use the spare disused bay at Harrogate. With the platform restricted Knaresborough removed from Leeds services, you could lengthen all services to 6 cars.

However I'm not sure how the people of Knaresborough would feel about losing a direct service thou.

 

[Ken H]

Great suggestion, although using bio-modes would surely undermine the business case for such as scheme. Perhaps it should be split into two with a fully electrified line to Harrogate and then a diesel service to York, although to maintain current service patterns you would have to reinstate the second track between Knaresborough and York, although I think that is planned anyway. The York service could use the spare disused bay at Harrogate. With the platform restricted Knaresborough removed from Leeds services, you could lengthen all services to 6 cars.

However I'm not sure how the people of Knaresborough would feel about losing a direct service thou.

we dont really know the costs of bimodes. There is the weight problem (Dragging a transformer and diesel engine about must add weight and therefore fuel consumption) and the maintenance of 2 lots of kit.
How do they know when to maintain a bi-modes diesel? Is there a meter that logs engine hours or something?

 

[option]

So you spark to Kiddy.

I would do Dorridge/Earlswood to Kiddy and use bi modes. Diesel for Leamington, Stratford and beyond Kiddy.

Kidderminster to Whitlocks End/Dorridge is the best Snow Hill Lines electrification solution in terms of bang for buck, after that Leamington, the 1tph down from Whitlocks to Stratford must be a lower priority.

I think this would be the best plan with EMUs doing Whitlocks End/Dorridge to Kidderminster, and bi modes doing Worcester-Stratford-upon-Avon.

By not doing the whole length of the services, ie by not going to Stratford & Leamington, you either;
have to get a lot of bi-modes - will they still be available, will places kick up a fuss if your getting new trains that are still diesel, will any ROSCO be willing to take on the risk, especially if they think that you'll be extending the wires...
or get a mixed fleet that affects availability - if a diesel engine breaks, how do you then operate the Stratford/Leamington services


Whitlocks End-Stratford is 1tph each way, so that's already 2tph that would be using the wires. The Wilmcote-Stratford section is 4tph + the Chiltern services.