Electrification to Chinley

[Nym]

Having thought about this somwhat in sight of other threads, I thought I'd give this it's own, it got me thinking about the 319s going to Northern, and displacment of more diesel stock.

Now, theres two lines in the Manchester area that could see electrification and where it would be quite helpful. One would be the CLC route, the other the suburban lines around East Manchester and North Stockport into High Peak.

Now, what I'd propose would be electrification of:

Ashburys - Romiley
Guide Bridge - Romiley
Romiley - Rose Hill Marple
Romiley - Chinley
Hazel Grove - Chinley

With:

Additional platforms at Chinley 2 west facing bays 4 or 8 cars long.

Now, the reason I'm picking chinley...

1) It's the meeting point of the East Manchester Lines and Hazel Grove - Sheffiled link line
2) It's roughly the outer limit of commuters into Manchester
3) Line capacity West of Chinley isn't at as much of a premium as it is East of Chinley with the freight using the route
4) I would have this as the 1st stop for any Manchester - Sheffeild services, (Excluding Stockport), this would allow such services to take many diferent routes into Manchester.

What I'd see in the way of service patterns would be:

East Manchester Lines pretty much as is, with a few minor changes

Manchester - Romiley 5tph: 2 via Hyde and 3tph via Reddish
Romiley - Rose Hill Marple: 2tph
Romiley - Chinley 3tph (one could terminate short at Marple)

Manchester - Sheffeild all stations would now be limited stop from Chinley to Manchester, calling only at Romiley and Guide Bridge, or Stockport and Hazel Grove if routed that way.

(Preston) - Manchester - Hazel Grove extended to Chinley

Assuming the same 1tp2h all stations to Sheffeild from Manchester, in the alternate hour one long distance service will call at Chinley to give the hope valley an hourly service from Chinley to Sheffeild.

If 1tph can be maintained all day on the hope valley stopper, with 2tph express as is now, then one of the expresses may or may not call at Chinley.

Working off the back of a fag packet, (and assuming a 1hr journey time to Chinley on a stopper from Manchester) it would need 10 diagrams to cover to Marple, so, with 3tph on the East Manchester lines extended to Chinley, that would be 14 diagrams, then the Hazel Grove - Preston extention taking another one or two. Lets say 16 diagrams taken up by this electrification, but, 12 diesel diagrams freed up.

Back to the addy ups table from before:

86 units...

3tph fast Liverpool - Manchester Victoria (33mins end to end) 9 diagrams, leaves 79
2tph slow Liverpool - Manchester Victoria 4 diagrams leaves 75
1tph Victoria - Blackpool North 4 diagrams leaves 71
1tph Hazel Grove - Preston 3 diagrams leaves 68
2tph Liverpool - Wigan 4 diagrams leaves 64
1tph Liverpool - Warrington via Earlstown 2 diagrams leaves 62
1tph Manchester Victoria - Bolton all stations 2 diagrams leaves 60
2tph Manchester Victoria - Wigan all stations 6 diagrams leaves 54

Take off the current 20 electric diagrams needed, leaves 34.

This would add 16 diagrams required. leaving 18 spare units, if no services where doubled up. This is about the right amount for out of service maintenance and peak capacity doubling. And a nice big standardised fleet for Lancashire Electrics.

Not to mention aswell that Chinley has space for a fair amount of platforms, and possibly sidings aswell, it would be a handy place to dump spare units out of peak hours without taking up space in Piccadilly, or paths to Longsight.

Not also to mention, if lines need to be closed for electrification works, there are plenty of alternative routes around the place.

And the a potential re-opening of the line from Rose Hill Marple to Macclesfeild shouldn't be off the cards either.

Anyway, opinions?

PS: Thames Trains (FGW) would get the 321s and 365s for their suburban runs, and would be able to run 5 car electric IEPs on others.

And the 323s would be cascaded down to London Midland.

All of the 319s would come to Northern immediatly, and the spare ones (while waiting for electrification) would be being heavily refurbished.

 

[bluenoxid]

It's a bit of a bigger version of my Marple electrification suggestion. The question is whether the extra three miles and the alterations are worth it (remember that terminating at the existing termini in this area is easier because the lines are already in place) and what the problems would be getting through the tunnels to Chinley.

It's a good idea and if they want to see the Northern diesel fleet shrink, it would make significant inroads particularly when the North West electrification train is in the area. Windemere is another place that could have a visit.

Don't forget the Ordsall Curve will really change the area and what you would consider the standard set of routes. One suggestion has been Stalybridge being electrified and possibly remodelled to speed up Hadfield services and provide an alternative terminating point of Victoria services. Of course, this electrification project could remove the need for Stalybridge to Guide Bridge as more trains could be pushed through from either Marple.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There have been comments from other forum members on other threads about the service provision at Chinley.

 

[sprinterguy]

I’d rather see the Buxton line electrified and a half hourly service introduced as a higher priority than electrification to Chinley. This wouldn't even require any additional paths between Stockport and Piccadilly as the half hourly service is already there as far as Hazel Grove. Additonally the wires will be there as far as Hazel Grove anyway.

The Hope Valley line needs more local stoppers throughout its’ length ideally, and not just at the Manchester end. However, until redoubling through Dore takes place this would be difficult to achieve. A more important consideration that would release much needed capacity along the Hope Valley would be the installation of up and down loops at Chinley, there’s definitely the space for them, to give a refuge for freight trains traversing the length of the Hope Valley line so that they don’t interfere with the passenger services.

Having said that, I do believe that there is a strong case for electrification as far as Marple and New Mills Central, via both the Hyde Central and Reddish North routes. The TPE and EMT services that are routed along the Hope Valley, along with the Northern stopping service, should all be routed via Stockport and Hazel Grove, leaving the New Mills to Piccadilly via Marple line open to the operation of a fairly high frequency (half hourly or more) commuter service. The Hope Valley stopper should be able to become hourly with the introduction of loops at Chinley and redoubling around Dore.

I’m sure in the past I’ve read that the Rose Hill branch has been considered for tram-train operation, most likely as part of Metrolink. I think that there is a good case for this (I know that Nym will hate me for holding such a view), with the Reddish North branch converted to light rail operation and tying in to the proposed Ashton New Road Metrolink extension. This would leave a 20 minute frequency electrified heavy rail service running to New Mills Central via Guide Bridge. I could see the case for an extension of one of these services an hour through to Chinley, running into a west facing bay platform to connect into one of the Sheffield bound Hope Valley services.

Failing the introduction of tram-trains to the Rose Hill branch, I would propose 2tph from Rose Hill to Piccadilly via Reddish North, and the aforementioned 3tph from New Mills Central to Piccadilly via Guide Bridge.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can someone give a detailed explanation of the problems at Dore and the costs likely to be incurred as to the resolution of this matter.

Have National Rail...or their predessors...published detailed reports and costings on this?

Is there any specific political problem causing any action from being undertaken?

 

[tbtc]

Can someone give a detailed explanation of the problems at Dore and the costs likely to be incurred as to the resolution of this matter

Yes.

Its a single chord which has up to three passenger services an hour (Northern, TPE & EMT) plus a lot of freight (the Hope Valley is the only way to get your goods across the Pennines/ Peak District between the Utoxeter line and the Stanedge line.

So not only do you have three or four services most hours over this single chord *but* the chord is also the section of track which the station is located on. Whilst you want units to get off the chord as quickly as possible, there's also the demands of a commuter station meaning units end up dwelling there for a minute or two.

Sound like a recipe for disaster? Add on the fact that the (TPE & EMT) passenger services are fairly long distance (so cannot afford to run late) and the fact that you then need to negotiate the junction onto the Chesterfield - Sheffield line and you have the dictionary definition of "bottleneck".

Dore used to be a two track line, with platforms also on the Chesterfield lines (allowing interchange from the Hope Valley to the London line without needing to go into Sheffield).

Double track the line through Dore (esp if you fill the extra track between there and Sheffield Midland, as used to be) and you can then add on more services from Sheffield to Manchester, who only have a half hourly service between them (considering the size of the cities and the single carriageway road between them, I reckon rail could build a big market share here)

Is there any specific political problem causing any action from being undertaken?

I don't know. There are a few problems around Sheffield (the flat junctions off the Rotherham "loop", the single track "Holmes Chord" into Rotherham... but none of them seem high up the agenda (compared to the money spent in Manchester and Leeds on grander things).

 

[bluenoxid]

There is the political will to do something and it is very high up in the list. In fact is it not on the list for this control period?

Northern RUS has been published today

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I had a feeling that it was due out soon. Hence my previous posting.