Electrification of Fylde line

[driver9000]

I agree that Platforming trains @ Preston can be unique e.g. on Monday the 18:44 Blackpool North-Manchester Airport used Platform 3, with trains already in Platforms 2 & 4!

On Sunday evening though, I arrived @ Preston in Platform 2 from Manchester Piccadilly! I know the Fast lines were closed. All above trains were TPE.

This does seem to be rather crackers or bad organisation!

It could hardly use occupied platforms....

If the Fast lines were closed then platform 2 is probably one of the most logical platforms to use it being the Up Slow, maybe a train was in platform 1 or was departing when your train approached and the signalman wanted to keep it moving instead of holding it outside.

In general the platforming at Preston is constant, slow services use the slow lines and fast services use the fast or through lines. This keeps conflicting moves to a minimum on both sides of the station and helps in keeping trains moving which in my experience of working through Preston, it does. Obviously from time to time alterations are needed when things don't quite run as smoothly as it should. I do agree that Anglo-Scottish trains should use the main island where possible but again, in general they do.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would it assist by re-opening both the former Royal Mail platform & platform 7 @ Preston?

Should the Ormskirk service use the bay platforms 3/4c? I see it illogical in using platforms 1/2 or would this be a pathing nightmare for the Signallers?

 

[driver9000]

The Ormskirk service does use the bays a lot more than it used to. It is routed into platforms 1 & 2 during the peaks to avoid a conflicting move while it shuffles across the ladder and to also allow the commuters a shorter walk to/from the station exit - freeing up passenger flow on the main island during busy times. It will also use 1 or 2 if it's arrival or departure could affect another inbound service. Many years ago the unit used to shunt to outside the signal box for its layover although the service pattern was different then.

For the current traffic levels Preston copes adequately with the 8 platforms it has for passenger use, reopening 7 or the ReS platforms would be giving the station overkill in terms of capacity, although with the cluster of Northern arrivals from the south (xx:48 ex Hazel Grove, xx:55 ex Lime St, xx:02 ex Colne) the ReS platform would be handy to terminate the Hazel Grove on. The platforms would need work doing to them to bring them up to passenger standards as well as the lines upgrading from 'goods' line status.

 

[PR1Berske]

In the dream world I occupy where money is no object, Preston's Platform 7 would be used for the Blackpool Trams which would connect Preston to the Fylde Coast (calling at St Walburge's, Lane Ends, Preston Sports Arena, possibly Salwick and then on to South Fylde........)

A man can keep hoping, eh?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the dream world I occupy where money is no object, Preston's Platform 7 would be used for the Blackpool Trams which would connect Preston to the Fylde Coast

This is dangerous talk, you never know who will be monitoring this thread.:roll:

I would not be surprised now to see a Preston extension to the Manchester Metrolink appearing in the latest "wish list" for TfGM...to link up with your Blackpool tram link

 

[PR1Berske]

Hehe

You see, I am against Preston's Tram Scheme, full stop, end of. I cannot accept this nonsense idea that Preston's streets can somehow accomodate a tram system. The short answer is, they can't.

However, we do have the link from Blackpool which so many people use, and which so many people cannot use because there are no railway stations. With each mainline railway station costing so much money (it seems), smaller (and I assume cheaper) tram stops from Blackpool are much more attractive a concept.

Giving trams to Preston from scratch is a nonsense idea built on sand and PowerPoint presentations. Expanding the Blackpool trams to Preston makes much more sense.

(And, who knows, get a tram stop at Coppull and Boar's Head and you could well have Blackpool Trams running through TfGM areas by 2030 )

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't subscribe to Blackpool Trams running to Preston. I would go for Electrification of the South Fylde line instead.

If trams where introduced through to Preston, a separate line would have to be built, unless they were 25kV units?

Look forward to your responses!

 

[driver9000]

I don't think light rail is the right way for Preston city or running between Blackpool and Preston. But I imagine IF it was done, parallel lines would need building as by then 25kv will be in place and LRVs run on DC voltages.

 

[Whistler40145]

I agree driver9000!

Also, Preston has Park & Ride facilities & frequent trains & bus services, so I cannot see any benefit whatsoever.

 

[driver9000]

Going on my experiences of travelling on Metrolink when running on segregated lines, they are rough when travelling at speed which would be a retrograde step in comfort for the passengers (even though the current provisions aren't brilliant) not to mention an increase in journey times given the 50mph maximum for LRV which would be sustained for some time given the rural nature of the route.

 

[PR1Berske]

Well, this is why I'm the dreamer and not the railway infrastructure planning director

 

[Lampshade]

Preston? Good park and ride facilities?

PR1Berske, you're from Preston, how many cars have you ever seen on the Bluebell Way P&R? Preston Bus has given up P&R now because it was only used by OAPs on concessionary passes.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Preston? Good park and ride facilities?

PR1Berske, you're from Preston, how many cars have you ever seen on the Bluebell Way P&R? Preston Bus has given up P&R now because it was only used by OAPs on concessionary passes.

The Walton-le-Dale ones tend to be well patronised...

 

[Buttsy]

The Walton-le-Dale ones tend to be well patronised...

As in 'Oooh, aren't you a lovely car park' and 'Aren't you clever for having all those cars'?

 

[Whistler40145]

Was the replacement of the Footbridge @ Layton part of improvement works in preparation for Electrification?

 

[bluenoxid]

I don't think light rail is the right way for Preston city or running between Blackpool and Preston. But I imagine IF it was done, parallel lines would need building as by then 25kv will be in place and LRVs run on DC voltages.

Dual Voltage :roll:

 

[exile]

Going on my experiences of travelling on Metrolink when running on segregated lines, they are rough when travelling at speed which would be a retrograde step in comfort for the passengers (even though the current provisions aren't brilliant) not to mention an increase in journey times given the 50mph maximum for LRV which would be sustained for some time given the rural nature of the route.

Since the recent track renewals and new trams Metrolink is a lot smoother. Before this it was like being on ship on a choppy sea!

 

[WestCoast]

Since the recent track renewals and new trams Metrolink is a lot smoother. Before this it was like being on ship on a choppy sea!

I remember riding the Bury Line before the renewals and to be honest it reminded me of air turbulence.

Actually worse than a Pacer on jolted track..... hock:

The South Fylde Line is my local line and it's oozing with potential. It gets very busy with tourists and locals alike and the mainly pacer services are becoming fuller than ever before at times (with two guards being used sometimes due to the lack of ticket offices). The tram idea could work since there is the potential for new suburban Preston stops, plus one at Wrea Green. The tram could then continue from Blackpool South to the Promenade and join the promenade tram which would then link to the station at Blackpool North.

Is that likely? No. However, for starters better rolling stock and greater frequency services (with a loop!) would bring about higher quality services and encourage more people to use the service for short hops. The stations are really well placed mirroring a busy bus route. The train is also MUCH faster than the bus for South Blackpool - St. Annes - Lytham. Really simple investments like TVMs and PIDs would help!

I've watched the South Fylde Line become busier and busier, it's packed with potential. Common journeys like St. Annes to Lytham could be made by train if the frequency was just 2 an hour.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The stations are really well placed mirroring a busy bus route. The train is also MUCH faster than the bus for South Blackpool - St. Annes - Lytham. Really simple investments like TVMs and PIDs would help!

I've watched the South Fylde Line become busier and busier, it's packed with potential. Common journeys like St. Annes to Lytham could be made by train if the frequency was just 2 an hour.

Your ideas carry much common sense, but it is in the hands of the transport planners and finance availability to make the final decision on service improvement, where one line has to compete against others. Logic does not always enjoy its true potential.

 

[WestCoast]

Your ideas carry much common sense, but it is in the hands of the transport planners and finance availability to make the final decision on service improvement, where one line has to compete against others. Logic does not always enjoy its true potential.

True, and the electrification of the main Fylde line is very welcome investment.

 

[Noguidedbus]

Blackpool Airport needs to go. The BAe site at Warton has a longer runway and conceivably better access provision; which (should BAe decide to ever consolidate at Samlesbury), would make a much better regional airport.

What should happen is that the old Blackpool Airport site should be reveloped in to a mini New Town, the CIF from which could fund a dynamic loop on the Fylde.

No, Blackpool Airport should be better used as an airport. Manchester can only take so much, and Blackpool could be a good alternative for airlines, serving a fair swathe of the North Est. Warton has lots of special kit installed that wouldn't sit comfortably with civil ops. They don't much like even GA using it.

 

[Toots]

I expect that all Signal Boxes will close, transferring control to Preston Power Box?

Well they ain't Tim,Preston PSB is scheduled to go in 2017,the Fylde line boxes ten years later.......

 

[Whistler40145]

Will any improvements be made to the Blackpool North to Preston line?

 

[WestCoast]

No, Blackpool Airport should be better used as an airport. Manchester can only take so much, and Blackpool could be a good alternative for airlines, serving a fair swathe of the North Est. Warton has lots of special kit installed that wouldn't sit comfortably with civil ops. They don't much like even GA using it.

I support the future of Blackpool Airport but Manchester isn't really anywhere close to capacity at the moment, it's movements and passenger numbers appear to have fallen in recent years and it's been trying to rectify this through encouraging new airlines and routes. The North West also has Liverpool Airport, which has enjoyed increasing passenger numbers in past years, but again it has spare capacity for most of the day.

If/when Manchester and Liverpool are full (which could be a long time off), then it may be a different, but for now, the airport is by no means stable. If they lose their largest customer over a discrepancy like the opening hours saga, then the airport has basically very few flights left.

Blackpool Airport is however in a very fortunate position to have a railway station (albeit not on a line that will be upgraded) so close to the terminal, Liverpool Airport is desperate for something similar. Unfortunately, the airport doesn't seem to utilise that in their marketing.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Having spoken to my Planning colleagues at work, the suggestion is that it will be an additional dwellinghouse on the end of each row of houses on the adjoining streets.

However, the local plan shows the railway boundary to be within the town centre core zone and not within the housing area adjacent. While the Local Plan is a consideration in deciding planning applications, it isn't apparently absolute that planning consent would be refused.

I'll do a land search tomorrow find out who the owner is, because apparently it is not Network Rail.

You did say that your workload was busy, at the time that you made this posting, but are you now in a position to carry out the land search mentioned in your final paragraph?

 

[Noguidedbus]

I support the future of Blackpool Airport but Manchester isn't really anywhere close to capacity at the moment, it's movements and passenger numbers appear to have fallen in recent years and it's been trying to rectify this through encouraging new airlines and routes. The North West also has Liverpool Airport, which has enjoyed increasing passenger numbers in past years, but again it has spare capacity for most of the day.

If/when Manchester and Liverpool are full (which could be a long time off), then it may be a different, but for now, the airport is by no means stable. If they lose their largest customer over a discrepancy like the opening hours saga, then the airport has basically very few flights left.

Blackpool Airport is however in a very fortunate position to have a railway station (albeit not on a line that will be upgraded) so close to the terminal, Liverpool Airport is desperate for something similar. Unfortunately, the airport doesn't seem to utilise that in their marketing.

An alternative is always handy, although Manchester has two runways, so is less likely to be affected. Blackpool could do more, but airports are at the mercy of airlines, who can pack up and relocate in a day. Look at Bristol some years ago. BA announced they were dropping their Newcastle flight. Easyjet (possibly go at the time) took over the following day. At Newquay, a development fee was imposed at £10 per passenger. Ryanair didn't like it, and dropped one of their daily flights from Stanstead in protest.

The railway station is a mixed blessing. From there, it is very easy to get to Manchester airport, so maybe they don't want to shout about it too loudly!

Runway length is not a big issue. 10/28 has a take-off run available of 1890m. An A319 at maximum take-off weight needs about 1850m on a good day, which sounds close but would be acceptable - they seldom go at full weight anyway, taking only the fuel they need for the journey

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The railway station is a mixed blessing. From there, it is very easy to get to Manchester airport, so maybe they don't want to shout about it too loudly!

I would not say that it is "very easy" to travel from Blackpool Airport to Manchester Airport by train. There are no direct connections. Either you travel from the airport to Blackpool North by road/tram to connect with the First TPE service to Manchester Airport or you use the train service from the airport to Preston, where you can connect with the Manchester Airport service previously described.

 

[Lampshade]

...train service from the airport to Preston, where you can connect with the Manchester Airport service previously described.

That service is timed appallingly, it connects with absolutely nothing at all.

 

[WestCoast]

I would not say that it is "very easy" to travel from Blackpool Airport to Manchester Airport by train. There are no direct connections. Either you travel from the airport to Blackpool North by road/tram to connect with the First TPE service to Manchester Airport or you use the train service from the airport to Preston, where you can connect with the Manchester Airport service previously described.

Generally, from a non-peak weekday timetable...

The train from Squires Gate station (for Blackpool Airport) usually arrives into Preston at xx.20, it's then a 27 mins wait in Preston for the TPE to Manchester Airport at xx.47, which can make it a rather long journey.

If I'm heading to Manchester Piccadilly from the South Fylde, in Preston I can just about make the xx.23 to Hazel Grove, but it's touch and go, and it's not unusual to miss it.

The railway station is a mixed blessing. From there, it is very easy to get to Manchester airport, so maybe they don't want to shout about it too loudly!

Airports must shout about transport links, they have a direct train from Preston (where many connections are available) and East Lancashire. Blackpool Airport has only focused on the free car parking so far.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That service is timed appallingly, it connects with absolutely nothing at all.

Exactly so. I was saying that I disagreed with Noguidebus when his posting stated that it is "very easy" to travel by rail from Blackpool Airport to Manchester Airport and I gave the only two rail options open.