Electrification, is it the biggest cause for delays other than theft ?

[Old Hill Bank]

Facts are that if a diesel packs in you shift it out of the way and get on with the job, if you lose the primary 25kv feed to a major hub like New Street due to ole failure and have to go to second or third stage feeding arrangements you screw up much more and for a much longer period of time.
Another point is that dmus/emus are often failed in service for none traction related issues such as door failures etc.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Facts are that if a diesel packs in you shift it out of the way and get on with the job, if you lose the primary 25kv feed to a major hub like New Street due to ole failure and have to go to second or third stage feeding arrangements you screw up much more and for a much longer period of time.
Another point is that dmus/emus are often failed in service for none traction related issues such as door failures etc.

So what would you do instead. And i would like an economical suggestion, nothing fantasy that is not possible.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

So what would you do instead. And i would like an economical suggestion, nothing fantasy that is not possible.

Sorry dont know the answer but I agree there needs to be one.

Electric traction has so many advantages if only the knitting would say up.

 

[Bald Rick]

Time for some facts...

Top 10 causes of recorded delay nationally for the past year...

1) Fleet (technical)* 16.6%
2) Traincrew* 6.5%
3) Severe weather (and hell we've had some) 5.6%
4) Track faults (inc track TSRs) 5.3%
5) Fatalities & Tresspass 5.3%
6) Passenger action* 5.0%
7) Track circuit failures 4.2%
8) Points failures 4.0%
9) Signalling power failures 3.8%
10) Station delay* 3.7%


All failures of the electrification system, from grid connection to the OLE or third rail inclusive, were a smidge over 2%.

Cable theft and vandalism together were a smidge under 2%.

All figures approximate. Note that * denotes delay attributed to train operators, and that the categories covered are somewhat broader than for Network Rail causes, hence why TOC causes (fleet in particular) feature prominently in the top 10.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Time for some facts...

Top 10 causes of recorded delay nationally for the past year...

1) Fleet (technical)* 16.6%
2) Traincrew* 6.5%
3) Severe weather (and hell we've had some) 5.6%
4) Track faults (inc track TSRs) 5.3%
5) Fatalities & Tresspass 5.3%
6) Passenger action* 5.0%
7) Track circuit failures 4.2%
8) Points failures 4.0%
9) Signalling power failures 3.8%
10) Station delay* 3.7%



All failures of the electrification system, from grid connection to the OLE or third rail inclusive, were a smidge over 2%.

Cable theft and vandalism together were a smidge under 2%.

All figures approximate. Note that * denotes delay attributed to train operators, and that the categories covered are somewhat broader than for Network Rail causes, hence why TOC causes (fleet in particular) feature prominently in the top 10.

Is that percentages in terms of total delay minutes or just incidents? (ie on this does a 5 day blockade from landslide count as same as 10 minute late due to trespassers or is it total delay minutes)

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Time for some facts...

Top 10 causes of recorded delay nationally for the past year...

1) Fleet (technical)* 16.6%
2) Traincrew* 6.5%
3) Severe weather (and hell we've had some) 5.6%
4) Track faults (inc track TSRs) 5.3%
5) Fatalities & Tresspass 5.3%
6) Passenger action* 5.0%
7) Track circuit failures 4.2%
8) Points failures 4.0%
9) Signalling power failures 3.8%
10) Station delay* 3.7%


All failures of the electrification system, from grid connection to the OLE or third rail inclusive, were a smidge over 2%.

Cable theft and vandalism together were a smidge under 2%.

All figures approximate. Note that * denotes delay attributed to train operators, and that the categories covered are somewhat broader than for Network Rail causes, hence why TOC causes (fleet in particular) feature prominently in the top 10.

Couple of queries on the statistics

1) Has this been broken down into: door failure, defective pantograph, traction system, engine, defective control system/csr/tpws/aws etc. This all makes a difference to this debate.

And I'm surprised that the bridge bash does not appear in the top ten!!

ps I'm not trying to bash NR

 

[Bald Rick]

Good points both, I had originally stated this but computer had a 'moment' and I had to repost (bad workmen > tools).

Stats are % of total recorded delay minutes.

Bridge strikes are way, way down the list and getting smaller as remote monitoring is helping now.

Fleet delays are broken down into sub categories - but only by the respective TOCs for their own use. I suspect it is brought together somewhere, particularly where fleets are shared. But I have never seen the data.

Someone with a clever spreadsheet could probably cross-reference the MTIN figures published by Roger Ford in Modern Railways every year to work out what proportion of the fleet number is down to diesel or electric traction. Further cross referencing to total fleet mileage would result in the proportion of total train delay caused by diesel or electric fleets, and thus normalised this would show whether in whole system terms electric or diesel is best.

However not being a spreadsheet monkey, I'll just go with gut feel which is that electric is far, far more reliable, even allowing for the odd dewirement or 3.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's only as clean as the Power stations...

Which in terms of CO2/KW are far cleaner than diesels.

This also translates to other pollutants. Environmentalists may moan about power stations and they can indeed cause awful localised pollution, but it remains that, localised.