Electrifcation - it's on!

[Metroland]

Transport secretary Andrew Adonis will set out detailed plans for railway electrification within the next few weeks, the Prime Minister said today (29 June).

The first lines expected to be electrified are the most heavily used parts of the Great Western Main Line from London Paddington to Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea, and the Midland Main Line north from Bedford, where the wires currently end, to Kettering, Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield. However, Network Rail's draft utilisation strategy on electrification (Transport Briefing 18/05/09) recommends upgrading many additional routes.

Currently only 40% of Britain's National Rail network is electrified, including most of the south east of England, and the main lines from London to Edinburgh and Glasgow, as well as the Merseyrail network around Liverpool and the Glasgow suburban network.

Large scale railway electrification has not been undertaken within the UK for more than 15 years. The programme currently being developed is expected to cost at least £1.5bn and envisages electric trains replacing diesel rolling stock on the Midland and Great Western main lines between 2014 and 2024.

http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/news/story?id=6029

 

[anthony263]

Dont forget the cardiff valley lines, The WAG are very excited about the electrification of the great western line, although i dont know how the plan to sort out the severn tunnel unless they build a bridge or the severn barage or maybe a new tunnel

 

[richa2002]

Whilst this is good news, there will be something I miss about a traditional railway view with no wires.

 

[TGVDUDE]

hmm, do i like electrifcation for the western region, well if they're not gonna take away the HST's then yea but they are and i guess you gotta go with the times lol i will miss the traditional look aswell
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as for crossing the severn is conerned isn't the tunnel tall enough for the wires to be housed?

 

[generalvegitable]

Brilliant news, those routes have been crying out for so long for wires to be suspended above them and electric trains running along these routes

 

[Mystic Force]

The problem is that the severn tunnel is a bit leaky. The modular train approach shown in the report means that once the initial lines are done they will move on to lines which have lower cost benefit because by this time the large investment in the factory trains are no longer a factor. And with experience in this approach it will become faster and cheaper to put up the wires. The requirements for the ICE program appear to be meshed with line improvements and intergration of the network being undertaken, let's hope that this is a sign of things to come. I am not the kind of person who thinks that we should just electrify everything because its good but rather try to do the best with a reasonable amount of money. If these actions do imrove the cost of running trains TOCs should be compelled to use some of these expected cost savimgs to improve service or reduce fairs.

 

[mrcheek]

hmm, do i like electrifcation for the western region, well if they're not gonna take away the HST's then yea but they are and i guess you gotta go with the times lol i will miss the traditional look aswell
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
as for crossing the severn is conerned isn't the tunnel tall enough for the wires to be housed?

dont worry, even when its complete, there will still be room for HSTs on services to Devon and Cornwall, Hereford, Gloucester and Cheltenham, and Weston-super-Mare, in the same way that a few HSTs are still needed on the ECML.

 

[anthony263]

dont worry, even when its complete, there will still be room for HSTs on services to Devon and Cornwall, Hereford, Gloucester and Cheltenham, and Weston-super-Mare, in the same way that a few HSTs are still needed on the ECML.

uUtil the plans are in place to put the wires up between Newport & Cheltenham and then down to plymouth which is seriously being looked at.

 

[mrcheek]

uUtil the plans are in place to put the wires up between Newport & Cheltenham and then down to plymouth which is seriously being looked at.

still leaves HSTs needed for Penzance, Hereford via Oxford, and Weston-super-Mare services!

but having said that, surely HSTs will have been retired by the time all this is completed anyway. so electrification will probably not impact on the HSTs at all.

 

[Metroland]

HSTs due to be retired 2014-2020, which is not bad for an essentially early 1970s train.

First wires energised 2014 through to the mid 2020s (depending on the scale of what they decide), so HSTs/IC225s will be retired as the IEP comes on stream.

Be interesting to see what infill electrification there is - if it's going as far as Oxford, will it go to Coventry, or from Reading - Basingstoke? In which case you could run freightliners with class 92 type locos and potentially longer trains.

With further in-fills from Sheffield-Doncaster and Wakefield, and Leeds to York, plus Birmingham-Derby, in theory a good deal of the XC network could become electric

 

[rail-britain]

Sounds so typical of politicians meddling in national transport strategy, for the good of the country
These are projects the country want, but take so long to get underway

HST2 / IEP is already in progress to replace the HST, so why consider electrification?
The idea is to have rolling stock at a franchise for at least 10 years

Reading between the lines, electrification (as proposed) won't be completed until at least 2025, just in time for more rolling stock to be ordered

With regards to the Severn Tunnel, this would be ideal for HST2 / IEP
Running under the wires to Bristol (possibly even amended to include a reversal at Temple Meads), then diesel until Cardiff, then wires again

 

[Metroland]

HST2 / IEP is already in progress to replace the HST, so why consider electrification?

Climate change
So it doesn't look dirty against new electric cars
Energy security
Faster acceleration
Cheaper to operate

The IEP has an electric option, I dare say more of those will be ordered instead of the diesels.

 

[jopsuk]

further, the proposed design of the IEP allows for diesel versions to be easily converted to hybrids, or to electrics, by replacing a diesel power plant car with a driving trailer. The actual traction motors on both versions will be under several of the non-driving cars.

 

[tbtc]

Be interesting to see what infill electrification there is - if it's going as far as Oxford, will it go to Coventry, or from Reading - Basingstoke? In which case you could run freightliners with class 92 type locos and potentially longer trains.

With further in-fills from Sheffield-Doncaster and Wakefield, and Leeds to York, plus Birmingham-Derby, in theory a good deal of the XC network could become electric

That's the part that interests me.

We don't want more "diesel only gaps" like Uckfield - if they are going to electrify then let's do it properly and not leave any daft little gaps.

I could see the Cross Country network being EMU run from Glasgow/ Edinburgh on the North East spur, Manchester on the North West spur, Basingstoke on the South East spur and Bristol on the South West spur, meaning diesel units only needed for Cornwall (even if the Penzance line is wired, Newquay probably can't justify it), north of Edinburgh and maybe dual voltage machines for the Bournemouth services.

This'd also give potential for currently EMU services (like Liverpool to Birmingham to be integrated with XC too...

 

[CosherB]

This is politician's promises. Does anyone think this will really happen? Come the next election, whoever gets in, Gordon will be gone and his legacy of debt will have to be addressed. There will have to be massive cuts in public spending. Desirable and sensible infrastucture projects like this will be the first to go.

 

[Phoenix]

I definatly am all for this on the view that electrification will finally get pride and place on the UK rail network. and as I enthusiast I cant wait to do the entire MMl on a class 86 if that happens.

 

[Metroland]

This is politician's promises. Does anyone think this will really happen? Come the next election, whoever gets in, Gordon will be gone and his legacy of debt will have to be addressed. There will have to be massive cuts in public spending. Desirable and sensible infrastucture projects like this will be the first to go.

And the Tories 'Green' image with it.

 

[Mystic Force]

There realy isn't any need for speculation over what is going to be electrified its all in the report they produced. If they start soonish that will be what is done. And because of the way they are going to do it the instalation assets can be utilised once the priority lines on other routes are complete such aa we would have a rolling electrification program.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Climate change
So it doesn't look dirty against new electric cars

Climate change is just a buzz word passed from politicians to the public as propaganda in order to levy higher taxes on things that aren't 'green'.

Let me ask you something. If everyone suddenly got electric cars, where would the money come from? No fuel tax; no vehicle excise duty; no congestion charges - the list goes on. They would then find another topic on which to focus and we would all start paying for that instead.

I think we all want a better railway where the quality of product is higher, where the journey times are faster etc but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that it will be 'green'. Sure, new trains will be more efficient but the electricity used to power these trains will still come from the fossil fueled power stations that we have today.

It is pathetic. I for one am sick to death of hearing it. There is still a large percentage of scientists who believe that climate change will cause parts of the world to get COLDER. There are also those who believe that, due to a higher concentration of particulates in the atmosphere, the sun's rays are now less able to penetrate through to the surface of the Earth - again leading to it becoming COLDER.

We deserve a better railway system because it makes our country move more freely and work more efficiently. We shouldn't have to resort to and rely on excuses and lies about things people cannot even agree on. The majority of people in this country would rather have cheaper products and services than be environmentally friendly. So build us a good transport system that is cheap and convenient to use, something that might actually make people think about making the car journey instead of it just being a formality. But sadly, somehow, I can't see the government wanting to lose all that tax revenue........

 

[Metroland]

. The majority of people in this country would rather have cheaper products and services than be environmentally friendly. .

As its been pointed out, its cheaper to operate over a period of time and they tend to be better performance, therefore there tends to be more revenue and less subsidy, therefore less tax.

It always amuses me people who say we want things cheaper, but don't like the idea of saving energy, therefore money. Or don't think $200 oil could re-appear, or expensive Russian gas and coal.

As for electric cars, don't worry, I suspect they have thought of ways to tax those.

Actually lots people do care about the wider world, rather than just getting things as cheap as possible. They also care about good working conditions, social justice and taking care of animals and the planet as a whole rather than just reckless consumption or obscene profits. I know I do, and I find it hard to believe the majority of people are any different if they really sat and thought about it.

 

[curly42]

Well said whoshotjimmi,at last some common sense on here - I totally agree with you.I would dearly love to get excited about the electrification statement and start all sorts of debates about "will they do Swindon-Gloucester-Newport as a diversionary route" BUT a part of me feels that this is political dogma.
If (when ?) the tories get in they're going to a) reverse the decision to save money or b) expand the plans and take the glory - there's probably c,d,e,f etc. as well.
I really hope that this happens,but I'm afraid I wont believe it until the masts go up.

 

[caughtonatrain]

Actually lots people do care about the wider world, rather than just getting things as cheap as possible. They also care about good working conditions, social justice and taking care of animals and the planet as a whole rather than just reckless consumption or obscene profits. I know I do, and I find it hard to believe the majority of people are any different if they really sat and thought about it.

Good on you Metroland. Given that this thread might veer dangerously off topic I wasn't going to reply. But then I saw curly42's reply and thought a bit of balance is needed. For me the issue is not really about whether the scientists are right or wrong; it's whether it's worth the risk. Given we can have a great standard of living WITHOUT costing the earth if we try a bit harder, then surely it's not worth gambling our future away through reckless consumption...

 

[Oswyntail]

This government has a history of making multiple announcements of projects (in any area) using the same pot of money, letting the relevant departments fight over who actually has the money, then quietly dropping the ones that don't win. It saves them having to prioritise and make public announcements that they cannot afford something. Already the Housing department is claiming the pot, saying it has beaten off Transport. In reality (particularly in Health) any money there is goes into Management Consultants "working up" the proposals in completely unrealistic ways because they have been brought in from outside the relevant areas of expertise. These proposals are themselves then dropped as being unworkable. This is why, despite having announced many, many initiatives, and spending record amounts of (our) money, there is nothing to show since 1997 except national bankruptcy.
Perhaps I need a cup of coffee

 

[16CSVT2700]

This is politician's promises. Does anyone think this will really happen? Come the next election, whoever gets in, Gordon will be gone and his legacy of debt will have to be addressed. There will have to be massive cuts in public spending. Desirable and sensible infrastucture projects like this will be the first to go.

Well preliminary digging and surveying for overheads at least as far as Reading have already been taking place, and still are according to my LTV WON's

 

[gordonthemoron]

the government should stop faffing about and get on with it

 

[TGVDUDE]

It's still exicting and as i here all of the uses of the IEP on page one of this thread i can see it is going to be an awesome project!

 

[gingerheid]

It's that time of the five years, isn't it? Ie, there's an election coming up...

 

[bengley]

Chiltern could do with electrification imo.

 

[anthony263]

I am surpirsed that DB havent decided to electrify the Chiltern lines themselves since they do have a 20 yr contract so they might be able to make a return on it and then they can send those class 168's & 165s to First great western for use in the Bristol area and then send the class 150's down to cornawall to replace the pacers

 

[krus_aragon]

I am surpirsed that DB havent decided to electrify the Chiltern lines themselves since they do have a 20 yr contract so they might be able to make a return on it and then they can send those class 168's & 165s to First great western for use in the Bristol area and then send the class 150's down to cornawall to replace the pacers

But what'll they do with the pacers?!