• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Electric Freight Potential from May 2018 and beyond

Status
Not open for further replies.

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,856
Location
Beeston (Notts)
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but given that electrification is now in operation as far as Didcot Parkway and is due to reach Wales by the end of the year, would anyone say there is potential to convert some freight services over to electric traction?
I've got a few ideas for some which could involve minimal changes to the existing wiring scheme.

*digs crayons out*

GBRf
In Wales, Pengam Reception Sidings would seem like an obvious contender for wired freight; mindful that most (if not all) of GBRf's services using Pengam run between there and Acton Yard, a conversion to electric haulage between London & Wales could be feasible.
Some services could make use of electric haulage for longer distances - 6V78 from Tilbury I.R.F.T. to Trostre Works could potentially use wires all the way from Essex, as long as the approach roads into to Tilbury terminal were electrified. (GBRf's MD once said he was quite keen on FOC investment into electrification oddments, such as Felixstowe-Ipswich, that would be more liable to recieve private funding that state funding.)

DRS
Not really much to speak of traffic-wise; the Daventry-Wentloog liners use such a small amount of electrified track at each end there's little/no point in converting it to AC traction at this stage.

Freightliner
Some more potential conversion to AC haulage; the Felixstowe-Bristol (Parson Street Terminal) container trains could receive electric operation between Ipswich and Bristol Parkway if the FHH sidings at Stoke Gifford (adjacent to Parkway) were electrified. Diesel locos would carry on to Parson Street, unless FL go the whole hog and get wires all the way to the terminal - this would probably happen when (and if) the final OLE layout for Temple Meads is sorted.

Colas
Most of their traffic along this axis uses so little electrified track that no case exists for conversion of services at this stage.

DB Cargo
Some of DB's services along the GW corridor, such as the Severnside "bin-liner" traffic and the "jumbo" aggregates train that ran in September (with 2 66s up front) could go over to electric traction if some terminals/sidings between London & Cardiff were wired. Acton Yard would be an obvious contender, along with Cardiff Tidal Yard (and possibly Margam Yard); electrifying these would allow more electric locomotives to haul DBC trains along most of the route, saving diesel for the Third Rail sections and unelectrified sections beyond Acton/Cardiff. (Margam is included solely for the unlikely eventuality that Grayling sees sense, and allows wires to continue to Swansea)

*puts crayons away*

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Dhassell

Member
Joined
22 Mar 2015
Messages
1,011
DRS could easily use Class 88's for the Daventry to Wentloog, but would only use wires from Severn Tunnel to Wentloog.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,914
Location
Mold, Clwyd
While travelling Manchester-Crewe yesterday we overtook a loaded stone train with a 66 on the front.
Checking on RTT is was a Dowlow (Buxton) to Theale DB service.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H39410/2018/01/22/advanced

This was routed via Altrincham and Middlewich to Crewe, then up the WCML to Wembley, then via Acton Yard and the GW main line to Theale.
I'm presuming the 66 ran all the way, although it did have extended stops at Crewe, Wembley and Acton for an overall timing of 12 hours.
In an ideal world, this train would be electrically hauled from Crewe all the way to Theale once the GW wires reach Newbury later this year.
But just as most of the freights on the WCML are diesel-hauled, I doubt we will see a 92 on the front at Theale.
The other obvious obstacle is of course the unwired mile in west London between the WCML and Acton Yard via Acton Wells Jn.
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,856
Location
Beeston (Notts)
DRS could easily use Class 88's for the Daventry to Wentloog, but would only use wires from Severn Tunnel to Wentloog.
Well, there is the run up the WCML to Nuneaton (or Daventry to Kings Norton via B'ham New Street on a Sunday) as well, but all the patches of wiring between the two wouldn't really be useful.
Edit: RAIL Magazine published this excerpt in an article on DRS https://www.railmagazine.com/news/rail-features/exclusive-inside-direct-rail-services):
RAIL Magazine "Inside Direct Rail Services" said:
Other work is in the offing, including Carlisle to Crewe Basford Hall engineer’s traffic and services from Daventry to Purfleet, once pathing around London is resolved. When the Great Western Main Line to Cardiff is electrified, this will open up the possible diagramming of Class 88 on the Daventry to Wentloog intermodal service.

what would be the performance of an 88 on diesel working a loaded container train?
About the same as a Class 20 IIRC, so not very good if trying to maintain speed.

Class 88 or similar?
Only one operator (i.e. DRS) uses them, but unless they hand them back to Beacon Rail Leasing & DB Cargo take over, it's not a point worth considering. Easiest thing to do would be to wire that mile.

In an ideal world, this train would be electrically hauled from Crewe all the way to Theale once the GW wires reach Newbury later this year.
But just as most of the freights on the WCML are diesel-hauled, I doubt we will see a 92 on the front at Theale.
The other obvious obstacle is of course the unwired mile in west London between the WCML and Acton Yard via Acton Wells Jn.
If only all the operators of these terminals invested in electrified reception sidings. You'd still need a shunter to drag it into a terminal where it can be unloaded by some means (e.g. a digger), or moveable conductor bars (such as those used in depots) could be an idea, but it would just be a hell of a lot easier to get a new fleet of AC Last Mile locos (i.e. a 25kV electric loco with a diesel engine for shunt work) and use those instead.
IIRC, Bombardier still have the design papers for a UK Loading Gauge TRAXX...
I wouldn't mind a pint-sized Siemens Vectron (with shunting powers) either.
But given DB Cargo UK's hand over fist loss of contracts recently, I suspect new loco orders are the last thing on their minds!
 
Last edited:

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
7,843
Look at the number of electric-hauled freights on the ECML. Expect similar.
 

Freightmaster

Verified Rep
Joined
7 Jul 2009
Messages
4,438
Look at the number of electric-hauled freights on the ECML. Expect similar.
That's my expectation, too.

Most enthusiasts don't seem to realise that the fabled 'sparks effect' doesn't apply to freight services!

MARK
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,856
Location
Beeston (Notts)
Thought I'd resurrect this thread in advance of next month's timetable change, with a broadened view on electric freight across the country (i.e. not just the GWML). Title's been changed accordingly.
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,856
Location
Beeston (Notts)
Scotland
As the Edinburgh-Glasgow route via Falkirk Grahamston is due to go live in the next few days (which includes the Grangemouth branch), I raised the possibility of electrically-hauled freight over the route.
  • For example, the DB Cargo intermodal service between Daventry & Grangemouth could go over to electric haulage over the route - but AIUI, the main limitation is the (lack of) available power supply on the WCML in Scotland (see the Wigan - Preston Upgrade? thread).
  • Another contender would be the Dalston-Grangemouth tanks, currently operated by Colas - if they were to hire or purchase electric locos from another FOC (or opt for new-build electrics), the service could be electrically hauled from Carlisle New Yard. Again, this also depends on the power supply upgrade to the WCML north of Carlisle, but that seems to be likely to occur.
The ECML is due to get electrically-hauled departmental services starting imminently, with Network Rail hiring a DRS 88 to work the new Doncaster Decoy Yard-Millerhill Yard services; these have replaced the DBC-operated Doncaster Decoy Yard-Tyne Yard flows.
 
Last edited:

chopperman21

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2016
Messages
77
DRS
Not really much to speak of traffic-wise; the Daventry-Wentloog liners use such a small amount of electrified track at each end there's little/no point in converting it to AC traction at this stage.
Surely the Class 88's where built for something like the Daventry to Ripple Lane liner, which is under the wires all the way, except for the terminals at each end.
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,856
Location
Beeston (Notts)
Surely the Class 88's where built for something like the Daventry to Ripple Lane liner, which is under the wires all the way, except for the terminals at each end.
Indeed, it seems odd that they haven't yet made it onto that working yet.
AIUI, there's been a bit of a kerfuffle with pathing arrangements for the route; I assume GOBLIN wiring might have something to do with it.
 

chopperman21

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2016
Messages
77
Indeed, it seems odd that they haven't yet made it onto that working yet.
AIUI, there's been a bit of a kerfuffle with pathing arrangements for the route; I assume GOBLIN wiring might have something to do with it.
I am not sure the power has been properly turned on the GOBLIN yet.
 

Grannyjoans

Member
Joined
29 Mar 2017
Messages
403
Expect the same performance as a single 20 when an 88 is running on diesel. Which isn't great, when the load is heavy.

Manchester - Preston via Chorley won't see any electric freight because it doesn't have any freight to begin with, unlike the adjacent M60/M61 which has enough traffic to match a continuous freight train that never ends!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top