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Election 2019 - promises

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Oxfordblues

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The Tories' breakthrough win in Blyth Valley must give new hope for supporters of reopening the Blyth& Tyne to passenger traffic. Perhaps a demonstration train could be organised with a "pop-up" station at a suitable stop on the route. I once travelled to Cowley on one such train, organised by Chiltern Railways and full of local dignitaries and press, with a single-use platform at Oxford Business Park.
 
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Dave1987

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Well he has a big enough majority to get most things through, plus there's an understandable reluctance by many of the electorate to vote for any party that's much to the left of centre. The size of the majority, plus what he can achieve in the next 5 years, should ensure that he then gets at least a second 5 year term to pursue remaining issues. It just needs the country to pull together rather than keep trying to pull different factions apart. Hopefully, many of the moderate rail staff can see that we may now be entering a new era.

Considering he is one of the reasons the country IS so divided with his rhetoric. It’s going to take a lot of healing to pull this country together again. Coming up with catchy slogans and shouting about how he is going to drive the country forward doesn’t mean a dam thing unless he actually delivers on any of it. For a start he could stop attacking the staff on the ground on the railways and actually attack the management whom waste extortionate amounts on money.
 

squizzler

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For a start he could stop attacking the staff on the ground on the railways and actually attack the management whom waste extortionate amounts on money.
Garden bridge, Routemaster 2.0, Boris Island airport. Pot, kettle, black.

Actually, whilst I hate the man, I think we are in a good position to make initially unpopular decisions that results in the industry being more competitive against alternatives in the long term.
 

Robertj21a

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Considering he is one of the reasons the country IS so divided with his rhetoric. It’s going to take a lot of healing to pull this country together again. Coming up with catchy slogans and shouting about how he is going to drive the country forward doesn’t mean a dam thing unless he actually delivers on any of it. For a start he could stop attacking the staff on the ground on the railways and actually attack the management whom waste extortionate amounts on money.

Well give him a chance !!

You could just as easily argue that the country was divided over both Brexit and Labour having a Marxist/Momentum/anti Jew agenda.

The people voted, very clearly indeed. It's now time for all true Brits to pull in the same direction.
 

DynamicSpirit

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The people voted, very clearly indeed. It's now time for all true Brits to pull in the same direction.

I just checked the voting figures. It turns out that, of those who voted, 56.4% chose to vote for some party other than the Conservatives. I think morally you're on pretty shaky grounds if you try arguing that we should unquestioningly accept whatever the Tories do (which is the only meaning I can infer from 'It's now time for all true Brits to pull in the same direction'

I'm also somewhat concerned about your use of the phrase 'all true Brits'. Are you trying to imply that there is something unpatriotic about people who don't support the Conservatives?

(EDIT: )....

You could just as easily argue that the country was divided over both Brexit and Labour having a Marxist/Momentum/anti Jew agenda.

Oh, and one other thing. Could you please tell me which part of the Labour manifesto was 'anti-Jew'? (If you need it, you can find the manifesto here)
 
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Deepgreen

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Well give him a chance !!

You could just as easily argue that the country was divided over both Brexit and Labour having a Marxist/Momentum/anti Jew agenda.

The people voted, very clearly indeed. It's now time for all true Brits to pull in the same direction.
He's had many, many chances through his rise to power, and it's littered with bare-faced lies, waffle and hollow promises. He's a man of no moral principles, no real allegiances and no interest in anything but power for its own sake. He oversaw many ego projects as London Mayor and switched side in the Brexit debate when he saw the chance to worm his way into office by the back door. The Tory election win was so tainted by Brexit that it allowed someone like Johnson to bluster his way to the top. He brings a new, very dark angle to the joke about telling if a politician is lying...
 

Deepgreen

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The Tories' breakthrough win in Blyth Valley must give new hope for supporters of reopening the Blyth& Tyne to passenger traffic. Perhaps a demonstration train could be organised with a "pop-up" station at a suitable stop on the route. I once travelled to Cowley on one such train, organised by Chiltern Railways and full of local dignitaries and press, with a single-use platform at Oxford Business Park.
I must assume this is supposed to be sarcasm. A Tory government led by Johnson interested in northern rail re-openings? Really?!
 

43066

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Oh, and one other thing. Could you please tell me which part of the Labour manifesto was 'anti-Jew'? (If you need it, you can find the manifesto here)

Labour has a long-standing, deeply rooted problem with anti semitism. Surely nobody can still be in denial of this?

Clearly they won’t have written anything actively anti Semitic in their manifesto, but that doesn’t make the problem go away.
 

Carlisle

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I just checked the voting figures. It turns out that, of those who voted, 56.4% chose to vote for some party other than the Conservatives. I think morally you're on pretty shaky grounds if you try arguing that we should unquestioningly accept whatever Tories do
True although given our arcane voting system I think you’ll find this type of result was widely predicted by many experts, especially in the absence of remain leaning parties ability or willingness to unite around a simple, straightforward & clear campaign of their own
 
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Robertj21a

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I just checked the voting figures. It turns out that, of those who voted, 56.4% chose to vote for some party other than the Conservatives. I think morally you're on pretty shaky grounds if you try arguing that we should unquestioningly accept whatever the Tories do (which is the only meaning I can infer from 'It's now time for all true Brits to pull in the same direction'

I'm also somewhat concerned about your use of the phrase 'all true Brits'. Are you trying to imply that there is something unpatriotic about people who don't support the Conservatives?

(EDIT: )....


Oh, and one other thing. Could you please tell me which part of the Labour manifesto was 'anti-Jew'? (If you need it, you can find the manifesto here)

Good effort, must try harder !

I think that, whatever I say, you will have your own interpretation. Fair enough, it's a free country.

:E
 

MidlandsChap

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That is utter, utter rubbish. Train drivers have to pay attention at all times they are working.

OK Perhaps the parapharasing wasnt the best. However the reality is there is a much greater likelihood of a bus driver having to react and take action due to unexpected events in between traffic lights and bus stops compared to a train driver between signals and stations.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Labour has a long-standing, deeply rooted problem with anti semitism. Surely nobody can still be in denial of this?

Actually I would dispute that. I am a member of the Labour Party, remember - so I have some experience of the party structures and culture! And for what it's worth, I'm also half-Jewish by descent (although I don't culturally associate with anything Jewish). I think it's pretty obvious that some anti-semitic stuff has appeared online in left-wing circles, and that is awful and inexcusable. I think it's also clear that the reaction amongst the Labour leadership has not been as strong as it should have been - and Corbyn in particular did not speak out about it in the way that he should have done. I also think there's some evidence that possibly some individuals sought to cover up the problem (I say evidence, not proof, btw). Again that is awful. But as for long-standing and deeply rooted.... No. Although I've seen stuff online, I've been active in the party for a number of years and I cannot recall ever seeing a single instance of anything locally that is remotely anti-semitic. Indeed we have one local member who is Jewish (and actively so) and he is absolutely furious - not about anti-semitism but about the extent to which he feels a tiny problem has been over-hyped up.

There is a problem - I would agree with that - but it's a problem with a small minority of members, not a problem with the Labour Party as a whole. And I would say that the extent of the problem has been hugely exaggerated by much of the press (at the same time as a similar and just as serious a problem with Islamophobia in the Conservative Party largely goes ignored).
 
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Robertj21a

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You don't get any marks at all if you don't actually answer the questions that were asked!

I wasn't seeking any marks. I made a statement based on my own personal views. You don't have to like them, or agree with them.
You know, as well as I do, that you will simply refute everything I've said, so there's little point in wasting each other's time !
 

Grumpy Git

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The people voted, very clearly indeed. It's now time for all true Brits to pull in the same direction.

You'll find your mate Johnson polled 1% more of the overall vote for his 80 seat majority, such is the way FPTP works. I'm not defending Labour, just asking you to wind your neck in a little bit, (and what on earth what do you consider to be a "true Brit")?

Labour required an average of 50,000 votes per seat won, whilst the Conservatives averaged 38,000 votes per seat won.

Farage splitting the Labour vote gave us the Conservative "landslide".
 
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Goldfish62

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Actually I would dispute that. I am a member of the Labour Party, remember - so I have some experience of the party structures and culture! And for what it's worth, I'm also half-Jewish by descent (although I don't culturally associate with anything Jewish). I think it's pretty obvious that some anti-semitic stuff has appeared online in left-wing circles, and that is awful and inexcusable. I think it's also clear that the reaction amongst the Labour leadership has not been as strong as it should have been - and Corbyn in particular did not speak out about it in the way that he should have done. I also think there's some evidence that possibly some individuals sought to cover up the problem (I say evidence, not proof, btw). Again that is awful. But as for long-standing and deeply rooted.... No. Although I've seen stuff online, I've been active in the party for a number of years and I cannot recall ever seeing a single instance of anything locally that is remotely anti-semitic. Indeed we have one local member who is Jewish (and actively so) and he is absolutely furious - not about anti-semitism but about the extent to which he feels a tiny problem has been over-hyped up.

There is a problem - I would agree with that - but it's a problem with a small minority of members, not a problem with the Labour Party as a whole. And I would say that the extent of the problem has been hugely exaggerated by much of the press (at the same time as a similar and just as serious a problem with Islamophobia in the Conservative Party largely goes ignored).
The heart of the issue for me is that I've always, always regarded the Labour Party as utterly non-racist. The fact that there is undeniable racism in the party now is quite shocking and inexcusable. Pointing out racism in the Tory party is not in any way letting the Labour Party off the hook because I've always considered the Tory Party indulges racists.
 

ExRes

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As usual another thread taken over by those that can't stop arguing and whining about Brexit and politics, this a railway thread, why don't you take your squabbling onto the General Discussion thread where the rest of us don't have to have it stuffed down our throats every second unless we choose to?
 

DynamicSpirit

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I wasn't seeking any marks. I made a statement based on my own personal views. You don't have to like them, or agree with them.
You know, as well as I do, that you will simply refute everything I've said, so there's little point in wasting each other's time !

I think the point is that, by exchanging and questioning views, we learn from each other. That point of having this forum gets rather defeated if people simply state things without being prepared to justify them. (And as far as I'm aware, if people question the basis for something that I say, I will normally try to respond by explaining the reasoning or giving the evidence behind my views.)

I questioned your post because you posted something that appeared to contain a wildly inaccurate claim, as well as a statement that appeared to equate supporting the Conservatives with being a 'True Brit'. If I had misunderstood you, you were welcome to post something clarifying what you actually meant. Since you haven't chosen to do so, I can only conclude that you actually did mean what I had inferred. :(
 

Mikey C

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I must assume this is supposed to be sarcasm. A Tory government led by Johnson interested in northern rail re-openings? Really?!

The Conservatives won the election by taking seats from Labour in the North and Midlands. If they want to retain these natural Labour seats in 5 years time they'll have to show pay more than lip service to the North
 

Robertj21a

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I think the point is that, by exchanging and questioning views, we learn from each other. That point of having this forum gets rather defeated if people simply state things without being prepared to justify them. (And as far as I'm aware, if people question the basis for something that I say, I will normally try to respond by explaining the reasoning or giving the evidence behind my views.)

I questioned your post because you posted something that appeared to contain a wildly inaccurate claim, as well as a statement that appeared to equate supporting the Conservatives with being a 'True Brit'. If I had misunderstood you, you were welcome to post something clarifying what you actually meant. Since you haven't chosen to do so, I can only conclude that you actually did mean what I had inferred. :(

Good try. I'm not rising to your bait. Believe whatever suits your biased views.
 

43066

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Actually I would dispute that. I am a member of the Labour Party, remember - so I have some experience of the party structures and culture! And for what it's worth, I'm also half-Jewish by descent (although I don't culturally associate with anything Jewish). I think it's pretty obvious that some anti-semitic stuff has appeared online in left-wing circles, and that is awful and inexcusable. I think it's also clear that the reaction amongst the Labour leadership has not been as strong as it should have been - and Corbyn in particular did not speak out about it in the way that he should have done. I also think there's some evidence that possibly some individuals sought to cover up the problem (I say evidence, not proof, btw). Again that is awful. But as for long-standing and deeply rooted.... No. Although I've seen stuff online, I've been active in the party for a number of years and I cannot recall ever seeing a single instance of anything locally that is remotely anti-semitic. Indeed we have one local member who is Jewish (and actively so) and he is absolutely furious - not about anti-semitism but about the extent to which he feels a tiny problem has been over-hyped up.

There is a problem - I would agree with that - but it's a problem with a small minority of members, not a problem with the Labour Party as a whole. And I would say that the extent of the problem has been hugely exaggerated by much of the press (at the same time as a similar and just as serious a problem with Islamophobia in the Conservative Party largely goes ignored).

Thanks for the detailed and reasoned response. It’s certainly interesting to hear your perspective as a Labour Party member.

I suppose as an outside observer, completely unconnected to the Labour Party, anti semitism has objectively seemed to become a big issue during Corbyn’s tenure. It has always been a known problem in far left circles, and the best that can be said about Corbyn is that he has been spectacularly cloth eared to the issue, and has failed dismally in containing it on his watch. Unfortunately this inevitably leaves him open to accusations that he may indeed harbour anti Semitic views himself.

As I’m sure you’ll agree, pointing out islamophobia etc. in the Tory Party is no answer to the problem of anti semitism in the Labour Party - yet that often seems to be the standard response of many on the left (note I’m not suggesting you have done so).

That’s not to say that islamophobia is any more acceptable, of course, but the Tory party do seem to have reacted far more swiftly and robustly to the problem than Corbyn has to the (evidently much greater) problem of anti semitism in his own party.

As I’m sure you’ll also agree, particularly as a party member, that it’s extremely concerning that Labour are the only Party other than the BNP to have been formally investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

On a related note, the distinction between Anti semitism and Islamophobia is a controversial one. It’s true to say that anti semitism is racism, in the sense that it is possible to be ethnically Jewish, whereas it is not possible to be ethnically Muslim. Islam is a belief system and, as such, it should never be shielded from legitimate criticism under the cloak of “racism”.

That’s part of the reason I’m extremely concerned by the adoption (by the Labour Party and the Lib Dems) of a definition of islamophobia which inextricably ties it in with racial prejudice. There’s a real risk that such a definition could become a de facto anti blasphemy law - which is of course totally unacceptable in a liberal society.

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.
 
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43066

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I've always considered the Tory Party indulges racists.

its one of the reasons it gets elected.

Totally the opposite of my experience. In fact I know several ethnic minority Tory party members who would completely disagree with you.

The Labour party, on the other hand, is the only party, other than the BNP, to be investigated by the EHRC.
 
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Jozhua

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The staff side hostility to management is a real issue that senior leaders in the industry are aware of but haven't yet seriously addressed. Management and unions/staff were always fraught in BR days but everyone was 'in' the railway and knew their opposites. That bond was broken when Government decided that they could auction an operation off every 5-10 years and expect all the staff to trust the next set of management when they had no say in that process.
However, the union management need to be a lot smarter than they currently are if they think they can rely on 'popular' support. Rail tends to be used by more affluent people - the very poor do not use trains much. The average person on squeezed wages and zero hours contracts sees rail workers as already on a relatively good deal (an exceptional deal for drivers) yet still wanting more by holding their lives to ransom. This is fertile territory for a Johnson government with a decent majority and the ability to play to the gallery to be populist by 'dealing' with the rail unions once and for all. Don't forget the miners, or the print workers - the lesson of history is that once your job is substantially obsolete (and I don't mean a second person on the train, I mean insisting that only a safety critical guard can safely open and shut the doors on a modern train in the 21st century), don't fight to the death to keep it or you you will eventually lose, big time, with lots of pain all round.
The big opportunity is with accessibility. Campaigning for a legal duty to ensure that staff provision to assist passengers is a mandatory requirement either on station or on train would be a far more effective way of guaranteeing jobs in a way that matches popular mood and society's needs. And because disability legislation already leads everyone almost inexorably to that requirement, there is much better chance of government accepting it.

Totally agree, campaigning to ensure staff asisst with acessability would be considerably more understood and aceepted.

I'd argue guards needing to open the doors hinders their ability to assist other passengers with mobility issues.
 

al78

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Thanks for the detailed and reasoned response. It’s certainly interesting to hear your perspective as a Labour Party member.

As I’m sure you’ll agree, pointing out islamophobia etc. in the Tory Party is no answer to the problem of anti semitism in the Labour Party - yet that often seems to be the standard response of many on the left (note I’m not suggesting you have done so).

Whataboutism is not a property of any particular political leaning, it is a common human cognitive fallacy. It is commonly used by those who know full well they are doing or saying something wrong, and use it as a deflection tactic, rather than face up to a criticism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
 

Dave1987

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Well give him a chance !!

You could just as easily argue that the country was divided over both Brexit and Labour having a Marxist/Momentum/anti Jew agenda.

The people voted, very clearly indeed. It's now time for all true Brits to pull in the same direction.

I did not vote for him. But I am willing to accept that he won the election based on some pretty bold promises. Don't expect me and others not to hold him to what he has promised. He has absolutely no excuses. The fact that he has a pretty loose association with the truth don't expect me to get behind him. I am a "true Brit", I am a British citizen and was born and bred here but I will never support Boris Johnson as our PM, never. What makes me laugh is when the Tories have won a majority they expect the country the "pull in the sane direction" behind them despite the fact they have not yet proven that they won't make certain working people’s life a misery.
 

ainsworth74

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The election is over so now it's time to wait and see what happens. For wider political discussion please use existing threads in General Discussion.
 
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