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Egress pulling and PEA
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QueensCurve
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As a young lad I always said that when I have the %5 to pay the penalty I would pull the cord. My late father persuaded me that it was noot a good plan.
I doubt it as it would be pretty hard on a DOO service to enforce however I’d have no problem carrying a card reader to collect payment as long as I got commission from it. Kids pull them all the time for fun
Egress I’m sure if the person actually got out of the train thereby trespassing BTP would have a strong case with evidence
You'd have to be quite selective and only prosecute the obvious messing around with them. Anything short of that and like people calling 999 for civil disputes, you want to educate them on when it's appropriate to use them, but not discourage then from using it when they think they're needed in the future (which prosecuting would do). Same sort of reason we don't charge people for mountain rescue call outs if they're inappropriately dressed for their winter ascent of Ben Nevis.
In the '70s there was tales of somebody pulling the communication cord, (for younger readers, erstwhile emergency method of stopping the train). It was on the 16:50 Liverpool St to Lowestoft train that had suffered serious delays en route. I rhink it was New Year's Eve and this character had spent the whole journey drinking at the buffet counter. Somewhere near Manningtree when rhe train had stopped, he gazed out of the window at the dark night thinking that he was near his stop, and rhen pulled the cord. Opened a door and disappeared across a field. The tale may have been apochryphal in its detail.
Purple Train
Established Member
Not an unfamiliar tale. A similar episode was one of the causes of the collision at Winsford in 1948, in which 24 people were killed after a train was halted by someone pulling the cord as the train was near his house, and it was hit from behind by another due to a signaller's error.
The fine is given by the magistrates' court, not by staff, so that's a non starter.
The operation method of the train doesn't determine or indicate this at all.
There are plenty of driver only operated trains with on board supervisors/managers (OBS/OBM) or travelling ticket inspectors (TTI), customer service ambassadors etc in addition to be driver.
Equally, there are plenty of trains with a traditional Guard, but where the Guard would not be able to reach the customer, e.g. due to the use of multiple non-gangway stock.
Examples of the former exist on GTR, Southeastern, ScotRail, Lumo etc, while examples of the latter exist on Northern, TPE, etc.
The method of operation of a train is a separate concept to the visibility of passenger-facing staff.
Notwithstanding it's a moot point anyway because....
I wouldn't exactly call the pulling the cord as one of the causes of the collision. The only cause of the collision was the signalman's error. A non-scheduled stop might be contributory to the event, - as in if that hadn't happened, the signalman's error wouldn't have had the same serious result and probably not reached the attention of anybody outside the persons involved.
Purple Train
Established Member
Factor would have been a better term, yes. Thank you.
Similar in a way to the Gare de Lyon crash in 1988. A passenger pulled the cord because the train's stopping pattern had changed in the new timetable and it no longer stopped at the station she wanted, so she pulled the cord and got off the train there anyway.
The driver and guard then made an error when resetting the brakes and the train had almost no braking when it reached the station, with disastrous consequences.
The person who pulled the cord was fined for improper use, but not for anything else. It wasn't the direct cause of the crash (which was the lack of brakes), although you'd have to say it was a contributory factor because had she not pulled the cord none of what came afterwards would have happened. The driver and guard, on the other hand, were found guilty of manslaughter and served time in prison.
That was the correct sentence against the passenger, nothing more. Apart from potentially disrupting the running of the train, everything else that happened was the responsibility of the railway. Just as it would have been if a passenger pulled the cord* because of a passenger in danger or ill and the same fatal ensuing actions were taken by the crew.
Bear in mind we are talking about 'pulling the cord' as likely being the only way of calling for help. The situation is slightly different in the case of a correctly functioning driver comms facility.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Inbound or outbound?
Inbound. Should of stated before sorry. About 15 seconds before journey end.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I hope they caught whoever it was - assuming they did, what was the feeble excuse given for pulling it?
Hopefully it didn't leave the outer end of the train foul of any limits?
Only a five car so well in. Let everyone off and relocked and moved up. A gentleman came past the cab and said oi I nearly fell out of the door and so I suspected it was him . I replied and said , well one of your fellow passengers pulled the door egress and he walked off. Seemed quite agitated/aggressive.
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