EGIP electrification

[David Goddard]

It's a shame to lose some terminal, but they could always commandeer some extra space from the commercial premises surrounding it to become facilities.

It doesn't need the same amount of space as Central or Edinburgh, but still requires more than a suburban-only hub.

Easy! Rip out the ticket barriers then you have space to extend the platforms, so they end roughly where the gateline is now.
6&7 would be tight against the North Hanover Street exit, but just extending 4&5 could suffice for fifteen minute EGIP trains, then 2&3 if needed later.

According to the most recent Trackmaps book (Dec 2007), Platforms 2, 5 and six can already take 8 cars, so it may not be a problem.
For the rest, 3&4 can take 6, 9 cab take seven and little old 1 can take a four car train.

 

[clc]

I suspect any future cross Glasgow tunnel would entail replacing nearly all current Queen St High Level services. Central and Queen St are too close together to justify two expensive underground stations. Tunnel would then run to new portal NE of the city.

If you're spending £3bn+ on a new tunnel you want to run at least 12tph through it to justify the expenditure. That easily covers Maryhill (2tph), Stirling (2tph), Edinburgh via Falkirk (4tph) and Falkirk Grahamston / Cumbernauld (2tph). You'd probably want some extra Croy terminators (bringing back the extra turnround track/platform plan dropped from EGIP) and maybe even links to Airdrie - Bathgate as well to get services up to 14-16tph.

At best Queen St HL might remain for the Aberdeen/Inverness and West Highland line trains.
!

I assume you'd need some terminating platforms in the new station as not all these services could run through towards Paisley?

Scotland could yet open its High Speed Rail linking Edinburgh and Glasgow before HS2 phase 1 is ready in 2024. What more could you want than genuine cutting edge infrastructure like that!

I was being a bit Glasgow-centric thinking about the possibility of an impressive new station in the city itself. But yes G2E HSR is an exciting prospect.

 

[Altnabreac]

I assume you'd need some terminating platforms in the new station as not all these services could run through towards Paisley

I'd expect all trains to run through to Paisley Gilmour St, there's already 10tph heading that way (4 Inverclyde, 4 Ayr/Irvine and 2 North Ayrshire Coast. You can easily increase that by doubling Largs/Ardrossan frequencies, reopening Bridge of Weir line or bringing back GARL.

Doing all 3 of those would give you 18tph which is doable as long as the western tunnel portal provides Grade Separation for the Ayrshire / Inverclyde split as the main constraint on the Paisley line is crossing movements east of Paisley Gilmour St.

 

[clc]

I'd expect all trains to run through to Paisley Gilmour St, there's already 10tph heading that way (4 Inverclyde, 4 Ayr/Irvine and 2 North Ayrshire Coast. You can easily increase that by doubling Largs/Ardrossan frequencies, reopening Bridge of Weir line or bringing back GARL.

Doing all 3 of those would give you 18tph which is doable as long as the western tunnel portal provides Grade Separation for the Ayrshire / Inverclyde split as the main constraint on the Paisley line is crossing movements east of Paisley Gilmour St.

I see, so at a stroke you'd remove up to 18 tph from both Central HL and Queen St with the added advantage of providing north-south and east-south services. The only thing missing would be improved connectivity between Central and Queen St.

 

[Altnabreac]

I see, so at a stroke you'd remove up to 18 tph from both Central HL and Queen St with the added advantage of providing north-south and east-south services. The only thing missing would be improved connectivity between Central and Queen St.

Exactly but you have no need for Queen St connections as North Clyde line passengers can change at Partick, Aberdeen/Inverness passengers can change at Stirling and all other routes (Stirling, Falkirk, Cumbernauld, Airdrie) will have at least some of their services running direct through the tunnel.

 

[clc]

Exactly but you have no need for Queen St connections as North Clyde line passengers can change at Partick, Aberdeen/Inverness passengers can change at Stirling and all other routes (Stirling, Falkirk, Cumbernauld, Airdrie) will have at least some of their services running direct through the tunnel.

Right enough. Throw in a HSR terminal at Central and we're pretty much sorted.

 

[clc]

Extract from today's Scotland on Sunday:

"ONE of Scotland’s busiest stations could be closed for more than a year in a move that could cause travel chaos for millions as part of major upgrading of the rail network.

Rail chiefs are considering a complete shutdown of Queen Street in Glasgow as an option in the station’s overhaul to accommodate electric trains and provide links to the adjacent Buchanan Galleries shopping centre.

The 21 million passengers a year who use the station are still expected to suffer significant disruption even if it is closed in phases.

The rebuild is due to happen between August 2015 and December 2016, with platforms being lengthened to take longer electric trains and overhead electric wires installed.

Work would also encompass the station’s mile-long entry tunnel, which has only two tracks, compared to four into Waverley station in Edinburgh, which handles a similar number of passengers.

Extending the platforms will also require the demolition of part of a hotel, which is built across the station frontage onto George Square. New station entrances to link with a planned extension of the Buchanan Galleries would also be created.

The plans are part of the £650 million Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Programme (Egip) to provide longer and faster trains between the cities.

News of the Queen Street disruption comes five months after Scotland on Sunday revealed that work would also hit passengers further east on the line, with the Winchburgh tunnel in West Lothian to be closed for three months.

David Simpson, route managing director of Network Rail Scotland, confirmed that closure of upper level of Queen Street was an option and stressed that “nothing is ruled out”.

More trains could be run into the lesser-used lower level, which currently caters for local services, but less frequently but with more carriages but details still had to be worked out. An alternative would be stopping trains outside the city centre at a suburban station.

Transport Scotland, the agency in charge of the project, has yet to announce how work will affect passengers. This is despite transport minister Keith Brown telling MSPs a year ago the implementation plan would be “available soon”. The agency has now said it had asked Network Rail to develop a “delivery plan......"

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/rail-plan-to-close-glasgow-queen-street-for-a-year-1-3070098

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Extract from today's Scotland on Sunday:
Work would also encompass the station’s mile-long entry tunnel, which has only two tracks, compared to four into Waverley station in Edinburgh, which handles a similar number of passengers.

Is there a hint in there, given the length of time of the blockade, that they are going to bore a second tunnel to make it a 4 track approach?

 

[edwin_m]

I can't see that happening given that the current plan is to go for high speed infrastructure in the long term. From what I gather of the nature of the work that is planned, I think it could easily take a year.

 

[Chris125]

Is there a hint in there, given the length of time of the blockade, that they are going to bore a second tunnel to make it a 4 track approach?

In a word? No

I don't believe a second tunnel has ever been proposed as part of EGIP; in fact the cut to it's budget will reduce the number of proposed paths needed through the existing one.

Not only is no such tunnel being proposed now, but with spare capacity through the Low Level station, little if any room for further platforms at Queen St and long term talk of a 'Glasgow Crossrail' such a tunnel looks unlikely in the future too.

Chris

 

[66C]

I notice masts appearing on the Cumbernauld line near the M80 bridge and Broomfield Road over the last couple of weeks.

 

[billio]

Here is what you might have had in Glasgow

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/br..._proposed-new-north-station_5396_2481_300.jpg

 

[route:oxford]

Here is what you might have had in Glasgow

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/br..._proposed-new-north-station_5396_2481_300.jpg

If only...

What's the length of the core element of each platform there?

ie from buffer up to "subway".