EE507 questions

[Mikey C]

Hello, a few things I've wondered about the EE507 traction motor, which I've not seen fully explained here...

When the 455s were introduced, they reused some EE507s from the 4-SUBs. Were there also new EE507s being built around this time?

The Southern liked commonality, but why would they want a new fleet of trains being powered by a 40 year old design of traction motor? Surely they would have wanted to "move on" to something newer, like the PEPs had, especially for a fleet of trains with a 30/40 year life, and create a "new" common standard?

The 319s don't use the EE507, but the 456s do. Were these recycled old motors or new ones? Was this so that they could operate with the 455s?

Thanks

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Hello, a few things I've wondered about the EE507 traction motor, which I've not seen fully explained here...

When the 455s were introduced, they reused some EE507s from the 4-SUBs. Were there also new EE507s being built around this time?

The Southern liked commonality, but why would they want a new fleet of trains being powered by a 40 year old design of traction motor? Surely they would have wanted to "move on" to something newer, like the PEPs had, especially for a fleet of trains with a 30/40 year life, and create a "new" common standard?

The 319s don't use the EE507, but the 456s do. Were these recycled old motors or new ones? Was this so that they could operate with the 455s?

Thanks

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come up with a definitive answer but when the EE507-motored 4SUBs were withdrawn, it seemed a waste to condemn good working motors and as they were in widespread use at the time (on the Southern), it made sense to reuse them.

The Southern were always very resourceful when finances were tight and remember, the 455/7's were built as 3-cars when new and had the ex-508 trailers overhauled and inserted prior to entering traffic. The 455's were built as a direct replacement for the SUBs (which were life expired) and had to enter service quite quickly - hence not enough time to develop a new motor despite the 508's having different ones

 

[physics34]

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come up with a definitive answer but when the EE507-motored 4SUBs were withdrawn, it seemed a waste to condemn good working motors and as they were in widespread use at the time (on the Southern), it made sense to reuse them.

The Southern were always very resourceful when finances were tight and remember, the 455/7's were built as 3-cars when new and had the ex-508 trailers overhauled and inserted prior to entering traffic. The 455's were built as a direct replacement for the SUBs (which were life expired) and had to enter service quite quickly - hence not enough time to develop a new motor despite the 508's having different ones

also 455s use SUB compressors too. WOnder how much more of the equipment was recycled.

 

[317666]

On a similar note, do the 315s use recycled compressors? They make more of an old slammer-esque ticking sound, compared to the more typical 31x sound on the 313s.

 

[Class455]

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come up with a definitive answer but when the EE507-motored 4SUBs were withdrawn, it seemed a waste to condemn good working motors and as they were in widespread use at the time (on the Southern), it made sense to reuse them.

The Southern were always very resourceful when finances were tight and remember, the 455/7's were built as 3-cars when new and had the ex-508 trailers overhauled and inserted prior to entering traffic. The 455's were built as a direct replacement for the SUBs (which were life expired) and had to enter service quite quickly - hence not enough time to develop a new motor despite the 508's having different ones

Were there enough 4SUB's to recycle traction equipment to all 137 455's? Also, what actually happens in the compressor? I've heard them ticking away all the time and wanted to know what goes on in them.

 

[Roast Veg]

According to kentrail, the EE507 was used from 1949 which would only include a small subset of all units - not nearly enough for all 455s.

 

[317666]

I was under the impression that it's only the 455/9s which use recycled SUB traction equipment?

 

[physics34]

What about the asbestos "HAPS" and SR HAPS and EPBS that were withdrawn early 1980s, maybe they were used on the 455s

 

[pompeyfan]

Were there enough 4SUB's to recycle traction equipment to all 137 455's? Also, what actually happens in the compressor? I've heard them ticking away all the time and wanted to know what goes on in them.

A compressor (in very very basic terms) has 2 or more pistons pumping up and down which force compressed (higher pressure) air into an air tank. The air is mainly used for braking systems, but has other purposes as well.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Pretty much all of the slam dokr units from the SUB onwards used the same motor. (CEP, EPB, CIG, VEP, HAP, CAP, 455, DEMU etc) only the 73 and REP used the more powerful EE546. When GEC bought EE the motors were still being manufactured and refurbished in Preston for many years after. The motors used in 319 are GECs but based on and essentially updates of the EE designs.

 

[Mikey C]

Thanks, I find it surprising that technology hadn't moved by 1980 that something significantly better wasn't available (e.g. more efficient, requiring less maintenance) that would have negated the benefit from the shared pool of traction motors.

I guess it was only when the Networkers arrived that a new generation of motors arrived

 

[The Lad]

Railways can be pretty conservative sometimes

 

[physics34]

Thanks, I find it surprising that technology hadn't moved by 1980 that something significantly better wasn't available (e.g. more efficient, requiring less maintenance) that would have negated the benefit from the shared pool of traction motors.

I guess it was only when the Networkers arrived that a new generation of motors arrived

one thing they certainly had....were spare parts. Not many parts suffer wear and tear in an electric motor, so the only reason to change would be efficiency.

Diesel engines etc are obviously alot different.

 

[AM9]

one thing they certainly had....were spare parts. Not many parts suffer wear and tear in an electric motor, so the only reason to change would be efficiency.

Diesel engines etc are obviously alot different.

The inherent longevity of DC rail traction motors had long been recognised as a disincentive to the replacement of the drive chain whenever the the body became life (or design) expired. In the '60s, long-term support of the motors was really only skimming or repairing commutators and replacing bearings/drive pinions. Occasional winding failures could even be dealt with quite simply, so the moderate efficiency of the design was tolerated until the mid-'70s oil crisis.
I think it was realisation that fossil fuels weren't in infinite supply and the development of suitable three-phase variable-frequency solid-state inverters that ushered the introduction of ac synchronous traction motors.

 

[WarrenTManager]

The motors are a mixture. Some bear EE on the motor casings, some bear GEC.
The 455 use the 20J variant.
The VEPs and CIGs amongst others used the 16F.
456 use 21J, they differ with insulated bearings. Some ex-455 motors were converted to 21J to increase the pool of spares.

Compressors vary in age. Oldest I have seen carries the date 1938.